June 15, 2023
Don't Adjust Your Dial, This Is AI-TV: How TAIV Is Disrupting Place-Based CTV And Winning With Sports Audiences With Avi Stoller, Co-founder and Chief Revenue Officer
Today’s guest is Avi Stoller, co-founder and chief revenue officer of TAIV, a place-based ctv disruptor that uses AI to perform maybe one of the most agreeably useful tasks for humanity - changing the channel on the TV during commercial breaks.
Find out how drinking beer and watching playoff hockey led to building AI that changes the channel during commercial breaks in sports bars during the biggest moments in sports to position brands front and center at the right place and right time.
Here’s a fun fact for you - 94 of the top 100 most-watched pieces of television programming last year was a sporting event. 82 of them were NFL games. Now, think about how many tv commercials you see playing on tv’s in public places. Now think about how many of those are in sports bars and consider the ability to automate changing the channel on all of those TVs as soon as they go to commercial break and infusing more timely and relevant content.
Check out TAIV on AdScout by clicking here.
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Chapters
00:00 - Tave
11:39 - Scaling a Rev-Shared Digital Out-of-Home Network
22:41 - Bridging the Gap in Out-of-Home Advertising
Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome to Out of Home Insider, the first podcast for media and marketing executives that connects how offline attention drives conversion.
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My name is Tim Rowe and for the past three years I've been interviewing guests about their unique insights, bridging this misunderstood and undervalued opportunity for brands to create alchemy in the real world.
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Today's guest is Avi Stoller, co-founder and chief revenue officer of TAIV, a place-based CTV disruptor that uses AI to perform maybe one of the most agreeably useful tasks for humanity Changing the channel on the TV during commercial breaks.
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Find out how drinking beer and watching playoff hockey led to building an AI that changes the channel during commercial breaks and sports bars during the biggest moments in sports, to position brands front and center at the right place during the right time.
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Here's a fun fact for you 94 of the top 100 most watched pieces of television programming in the United States last year was a sporting event.
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82 of those were NFL games.
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Now think about how many TV commercials you see playing on TVs in public places.
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Now think about how many of those are in sports bars and consider the ability to automate changing the channel on all of those TVs as soon as they go to commercial break and infusing more timely and relevant content.
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Tave is spelled T-A-I-V because they put the AI in TV.
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So that's the big idea.
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I'd like you to consider What is the secret sauce that makes you and what you do so special?
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It doesn't have to channel-changing a AI that even David Ogilvy would love.
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It can be absolutely anything.
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It can be your unique way of developing creative concepts.
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It can be how you work with partners to unlock unprecedented value for your clients.
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Whatever it is, own it and let the world know about it.
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Speaking of letting the world know, for the very first time in Out of Home Insider history, you can check TAIVon on tryadscout.
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triadscoutcom.
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Search TA-I-V on triadscout or click the link in the show notes wherever you're enjoying this conversation.
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So, without further ado, let's go.
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Well, i imagine it's like the same way that a lot of people get into Out of Home.
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It kind of fell into it by accident.
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This wasn't something that was a goal of ours as a company or a goal of mine personally, but we ended up creating a product and then we ended up realizing that the product was an Out of Home advertising network by accident.
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We approached it from a little bit of a different perspective, so it might make more sense for me just to give you a quick timeline of how our company came to be, why we created what we created and then that ended up being classified as Out of Home.
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Because you started out similarly, actually, to a recent guest.
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They started out as a consumer product.
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What they discovered was that businesses were buying this consumer product as a CMS.
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You kind of flipped that.
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You started out as a service to businesses and then pivoted into a digital Out of Home network.
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Is that correct?
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Yeah, exactly.
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And it wasn't like a super intentional pivot, but I think a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of businesses that get created, especially ones with Nobel ideas.
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You end up building something and you think your customers will use it in a certain way and it ends up being completely different than your originally intent.
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It's interesting.
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You kind of have to follow the market.
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You don't really get a control of how people use or what you build.
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You create something, you put it into the market, you iterate on it and then the market kind of dictates who you really are.
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It's not really the other way around.
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So absolutely What we did is we're sitting in a sports bar watching a hockey game This is the Winnipeg Jets, who are currently in the playoffs.
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Go Jets, go Jets.
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But this was like five years ago or something like that Watching the TV and drinking Corona beers and having a good time, and all of a sudden we look up at the screen, tv cut to commercial break.
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There's an ad for Boston Pizza, a competitor sports bar network, and they were advertising their $5 Corona's.
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And there's a Boston Pizza down the street And here we are drinking like our like I think it's like a $7 Corona or something like that We're thinking to ourselves man, this makes absolutely no sense.
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What a terrible experience for the bar that we're in, selling us more expensive Corona's, and we could have just gone down the street.
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So the competitor their TV spot was running during the commercial break And the sports bar you were in.
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the competitor to the bar, you were in their commercial was running while you were watching the game advertising a cheaper beer than the one you were drinking.
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Yeah, exactly.
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So it kind of smashed us in the face.
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It wasn't like some yeah I mean, yeah, it kind of just presented itself And you know, our CEO, noah Polanski, you know, was like wait a second, what if we let's find out how the restaurant feels about this?
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So we talked to our manager and of course the manager says how much they hate, you know, the commercial break.
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They have no control over it.
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It provides harmful branding.
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They'd love to have their own specialists up on those screens during the commercial breaks instead of having to play their competitor.
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Because, to this point, like that's the challenge, right?
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Either I have a, i have a screen that's playing the game and I just have to go along with whatever plays during commercial break or run over and change the channel, or I just have to have a dedicated screen that only plays an ad loop.
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That's the alternative.
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Absolutely, That's the only alternative.
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And the reality for all the bars and restaurants too, at that point is I'm paying an arm and a leg for Direct TV.
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They're charging me, or Comcast or whatever the version is up and front of it, And I am and I'm paying for this.
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These are my screens, this is my audience that I own, and I have no control over the whatever branding and marketing plays.
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I can control every single inch of my bar and restaurant to make sure it's the experience and the atmosphere that I want to build for my customers.
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And I pay for the service and they turn around and then they harm my atmosphere and my marketing and branding efforts by playing that one.
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And so so started the idea TAIV and and a year and a half of research and development.
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when it's a building with this brand new piece of technology that no one has ever done before, which is this piece of hardware that connects between the you know TVs and can basically change the TV input and switch.
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it'd be like a smart channel changer, so that someone doesn't have to manually switch the TV, switch the TV channel during those commercial breaks using AI for something actually useful changing the channel during commercial break.
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Exactly, exactly.
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Can I get this for my own TV?
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It would be probably a little bit more than you want to pay, but absolutely That would be pretty cool.
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Avoid commercials altogether.
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Or just see the ones you want right Like that's.
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There's relevancy to that, to just showing someone commercials that they're interested in content, that they're interested in ads that they're interested in.
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Just they're not opposed to ads, just make it relevant.
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Very smart person told me not me, it was actually giving a talk yesterday or the day before in Miami at the possible conference that I just came back from really fun time And they said that a good TV commercial is not doesn't get a bad rap like most commercials do or most ads do, but if it's respectively relevant to the consumer and it's done in a thoughtful way and out of home can be a really fun place and a really awesome fun canvas to use to create those experiences for the consumers.
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Good TV commercial is a conversation starter.
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It adds to the atmosphere.
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It doesn't take a week from the atmosphere.
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However, tv commercials and the TV networks have no ability to change the creative home environments.
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In bars and restaurants and other businesses They play the same app that doesn't really make sense to play, that would play in a household that's designed for households, that relies on audio that basically, is meant to be consumed in a completely different environment.
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Sure, and potentially for a different audience altogether, depending on the setting, in the context and all of those things.
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So okay, so we went from being a way for bar owners to get their own content onto the screens and then we hijacked the remote control and we got really smart and we're using AI to change the channel, which allows you to then hijack that commercial break run.
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Your own content Is hijacked the wrong word Are we going to get ourselves?
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I want to get into trouble here.
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Well, i just think hijack is this negative thing where we're like going, we're stealing, we're not stealing anything.
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Those commercial breaks are still playing, it's just someone's changed the channel and switched to PVM, and a lot of bars do pay for a DJ or somebody to actually manually change the audio and change the channel during commercial breaks and during things, and all we're doing is exactly that, just automatically.
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Not hijacking.
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Not hijacking.
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We're not taking anything.
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We're not really taking anything.
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I appreciate you challenging that and adding clarity to it.
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We're not hijacking commercial space, but what we are doing is we're changing the channel.
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We're creating an ad opportunity in a captive environment with some high value contextual relevance.
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I want to be seen next to this programming.
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You have this existing network of business owners that were using version one of the hardware, which was not intended as this digital play space, ctv ad delivery technology.
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How hard was that to start?
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Was it a forcing function?
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How did you go from being a technology company serving businesses in that sense to an ad platform?
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There was a forcing function and it was really, really hard.
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For us, the silver lining was COVID, covid hits all the restaurants close their doors.
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Restaurants aren't willing to pay for this anymore and replace it with their own stuff.
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They have to go into their version of survival mode.
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Suddenly, we realized we built something that restaurants are just not going to pay for right now.
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We had always known that there's a potential to sell advertising to support the system.
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Give it to the restaurants with free, in fact.
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Why don't you share some of the revenue with them but have advertisers pay for it and maybe the restaurant gets some of the time to still promote themselves, but the majority of it's advertising-based.
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During COVID, we have a long period of time where restaurants and bars just flat out weren't open.
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That's what we did I embarked on.
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I started having conversations with other founders in the community and the YC community.
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These entrepreneurs, startup communities that were involved in started learning a little bit about it.
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But, man, is that a learning curve that I don't still feel like?
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I haven't really finished learning about?
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It took a long time, but thankfully we didn't have any business to.
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No business could use that product because we were in the middle of everyone getting shut down due to the pandemic, especially bars and restaurants.
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For us, it was a silver lining.
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You know what we discovered.
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Advertisers are so incredibly thrilled to play really targeted out of home.
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What at CTV, in-stream video, whatever you call it?
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The consumer doesn't really care what it gets called.
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All they know is that they're watching a professional sports game and all of a sudden, the commercial break happens and there's something entertaining that's actually designed to work in that environment.
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We can make way more money doing that.
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We need to give some of that money back to the restaurants who don't operate a high profit margin business at all.
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It just ended up being so much better for every single party involved.
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That's how we fell into out of home.
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Pretty cool story.
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I think it is particularly relevant, understanding how much the out of home landscape has evolved over the last five to seven years.
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On this Hayek Forward model of hey, let's work together, it's a win-win-win It's a win for the business, it's a win for the company and it's a win for the brand.
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No one gets hurt along the way This opportunity to potentially scale this out now.
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So you've gone from being a hardware company with a SaaS revenue model to now being a rev-shared digital out-of-home network.
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Where was the footprint and how has it changed since those early days?
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Well, the early day footprint was essentially Canada because that's where we're from.
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We might have we had a customer too in Mountain View, california, in Silicon Valley, because that's where we were living at the Tundra, actually by a coordinator.
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But essentially it was all Canadian inventory, sass, sass.
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So I wouldn't even call it inventory necessarily, because that's not how we looked at it.
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In that way We had a bunch of Canadian bars, restaurants, covid happened.
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Covid shut down all of our bars and restaurants in Canada And I don't know how familiar you are with the way COVID was handled in Canada.
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But we did not open up that at all.
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Really one of the strictest lockdowns in the world?
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Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
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So we made all these changes and invested in and became an ad-supported visual at a home network.
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But we didn't have any opportunity to grow in Canada.
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So the three of us kind of sat together I'm talking about the three founders, mel and Jordan and I And we're like Hey guys, what are we going to do?
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We can't wait any longer.
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I mean, so you keep on opening up and then you come back down and just sit there and where is the most least likely place to close down?
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And we're doing a bunch of research and we fell on Florida.
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Florida's.
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Ron Desant Ron Desant is at the time.
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He said he's like we're going to sue anybody that locks down more than I say you're allowed to lock down.
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And we're like, holy, this sounds like a place that would be good for us to grow our business.
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And the next month I landed in Florida for the first time in my life and we started growing our first network, which was in South Florida, miami, and from there we went to Tampa.
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We did So.
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We've done top DMAs in Florida and then we moved over to Texas because we're still kind of like, just in case COVID comes back, we should probably stick to these, you know red states that we think are going to be most likely to remain open.
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So we did a couple of markets in Texas, that's, austin, san Antonio, we recently did Phoenix, and now we're at the point where we're scaling any markets.
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We don't really have to worry.
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We're not knocked on the wood, we're not worried that anything bad will happen in our restaurants.
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We close down, we can kind of just scale whatever market might be best for us.
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Talk about why Combinator and startup incubators.
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We don't have a lot of startups in out of home relative to kind of the rest of the world of marketing and marketing technology.
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When I was at a company called One Screen, we went through Techstars with the Minnesota Twins And there's a few of these startup incubators out there.
00:16:11.118 --> 00:16:18.496
but for anyone that's listening that maybe doesn't know what Y Combinator or startup incubator is, how would you describe that?
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It's a three month boot camp.
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You have to apply and you have to get in, and the acceptance rates are usually quite low.
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For the top ones like Techstars Congratulations.
00:16:31.096 --> 00:16:32.831
That's not an easy one to get into as well.
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That's one of the like that is in the top group of startup incubators.
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But essentially you apply.
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If you get accepted, you move, or you know, maybe not necessarily move, but you meet with your partners.
00:16:45.865 --> 00:17:02.813
So you have these incredibly esteemed and successful startup entrepreneurs that understand what it is like to to try to scale a startup, which is different than you know, an established business, in a lot of different ways And they kind of help you and you just go absolutely crazy.
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For three months.
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You basically don't sleep, you have no social life.
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You're there to try to progress the business as much as you possibly can in those three months And often takes a really, really crazy, unsustainable period like that to really kick off a business And you finish it off with the fund raise And then, hopefully by the end of the you know three month program, you're in a spot that is radically different from where you started.
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You've had enough direction and training to really understand how to make proper decisions when it comes to what to do in your business and how to deal with obstacles that come up, and you usually have a pretty reputable name behind you that you're able to use to say hey, i'm a bit more credible than you know.
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A no name company you've never heard before, because you know we were accepted into tech stars, a live call bait or something like that.
00:17:49.525 --> 00:17:50.248
And and how?
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I guess how has that and how is your, your background and kind of stumbling into out of home, How is your perspective shaped, the challenges that you see in the industry today?
00:18:02.597 --> 00:18:09.326
Like, you've got a very, you've got a very unique perspective that can be applied to our problem set And I guess what?
00:18:09.326 --> 00:18:10.248
what stands out to you?
00:18:11.411 --> 00:18:13.897
Yeah, totally, it's a great question.
00:18:13.897 --> 00:18:26.113
So you know, typical startup advice is you make a product that people want Like that is like a tagline for YCom there Make an actual product that people actually want.
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You make the best product or something that actually provides business value to the person using the product And you're able to scale it up.
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You're actually solving somebody's problems with a clever solution, something that no one's done before.
00:18:41.922 --> 00:18:48.771
And if you do that and that's all you need to focus on, then everything kind of takes care of itself.
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Then there's a way to you know, as long as you communicate that properly, your sales is solved and your business continues to scale.
00:18:57.923 --> 00:19:02.136
However, in the other home industry Right apply that lens out of home.
00:19:02.136 --> 00:19:06.266
Well, it works a little different because there's a bit of a disconnect.
00:19:06.266 --> 00:19:15.236
The majority of advertising spend is controlled by agencies who have their own set of priorities and not really the end advertisers.
00:19:15.236 --> 00:19:23.414
Often what's best for the actual client or advertiser isn't necessarily what gets chosen.
00:19:23.414 --> 00:19:26.846
It was really hard for me to wrap my head around that at the end.
00:19:27.042 --> 00:19:43.299
So, like a really good example that I can think about, is you know, in regular business or in a startup world, if you make your product like free or super cheap way undervalued, you should theoretically grow as much as possible.
00:19:43.361 --> 00:19:45.296
Businesses should be thrilled to hear about that.
00:19:45.296 --> 00:20:06.205
However, when you talk to an agency, if you're not charging enough that it's worth their time or effort and there might not be enough in it for the agency, they might not use you Interesting And that's like kind of seems counterintuitive because you think like the best possible thing for the advertiser might be like a very undervalued or even free ad platform that actually drives business results for them.
00:20:06.205 --> 00:20:15.136
Yet that's not what gets chosen by the agencies, who are there to like choose what's in the best interest of the clients or the advertisers, right.
00:20:15.136 --> 00:20:18.244
So it's really.
00:20:18.244 --> 00:20:43.777
It was a little bit frustrating and it's still something I'm trying to wrap my head around, but I think something in this industry that's There's a lack of knowledge between a sophisticated advertiser and what the agency is doing, and the agency has its own set of like priorities and difficulties and obstacles that it has to kind of go through, like the fact that they don't have a lot of time to do things they can't.
00:20:44.069 --> 00:21:00.981
Sure The balance in 20 different projects and emails and there's a fire And I would love to, i want to be strategic and I want to do those things but oftentimes really stretch thin under resourced and there's not a lot.
00:21:00.981 --> 00:21:08.328
Back to kind of the initial question about Y Combinator Relative to the rest of the world of marketing technology.
00:21:08.328 --> 00:21:19.902
There are not a lot of companies in out of home solving for some of those challenges that would allow buyers and agencies to be more strategic and to consider some of those things.
00:21:21.672 --> 00:22:12.759
Yeah, and what I found that actually gets results, since I've been in the space, is obviously having something that, okay, i'm being completely honest, if you have a product that sounds like it's going to work more than in reality, that logically might work better and you are Really good friends with the person and the person likes dealing with you, the amount of influence those two things can have compared to, racnally, what the absolute and effective marketing channel or the way that the product is, it matters a lot more, and so it's definitely a new style of way to kind of grow and way to sell than I've been used to.
00:22:12.759 --> 00:22:29.958
If you offer to take somebody from the tech world out to a sporting event or to go golfing or something like that, it might be seen in a very negative way.
00:22:30.390 --> 00:22:31.192
Oh, interesting.
00:22:31.192 --> 00:22:39.692
So I'm a SaaS sales development rep and I'm trying to win a deal, so I take someone out to a fancy lunch.
00:22:41.155 --> 00:22:46.785
Yeah, yeah, i mean, it's not as prevalent in the industry.
00:22:46.785 --> 00:22:49.315
You'd have to approach it very delicately.
00:22:51.839 --> 00:22:53.631
And yeah, I'm just Person out of home.
00:22:53.631 --> 00:22:54.053
That's just.
00:22:54.053 --> 00:22:56.080
Hey, let's go get lunch.
00:22:56.080 --> 00:22:58.107
Right, it's not even a.
00:22:58.107 --> 00:22:59.752
There's no thought given to it.
00:23:00.755 --> 00:23:02.858
Yeah, it's almost Yeah.
00:23:02.858 --> 00:23:05.991
In a way it's a little bit of an expectation, i think sometimes.
00:23:07.275 --> 00:23:09.760
How would you So with that?
00:23:09.760 --> 00:23:13.789
how would you approach bridging that gap?
00:23:16.554 --> 00:23:19.719
That's a Well.
00:23:19.719 --> 00:23:29.624
I think sometimes some of the reason that that is the case is because our industry is very fragmented.
00:23:29.624 --> 00:23:32.980
There is a lot of innovation in our industry.
00:23:32.980 --> 00:23:43.925
There's a lot of new networks that are popping up, different types, even networks that might not fit in exactly perfectly into the other home category, which I would think that we do as well.
00:23:43.925 --> 00:23:57.310
The better that the agencies can get educated on it, the more they can understand it, and everyone's so unique, the better that they can make decisions.
00:23:57.380 --> 00:24:00.025
I don't think it's coming from a bad.
00:24:00.025 --> 00:24:07.931
I don't think the agencies necessarily have bad intentions and I really think they're trying to do the best thing that they can for their customers at all times.
00:24:07.931 --> 00:24:10.003
But I think it's hard.
00:24:10.003 --> 00:24:13.883
Everything is an art.
00:24:13.883 --> 00:24:16.865
It's not a science, it's more of an art.
00:24:16.865 --> 00:24:21.269
It's hard to objectively show oh, this is going to work.
00:24:21.269 --> 00:24:24.028
There's a lot of extrapolation for the future.
00:24:24.028 --> 00:24:45.568
I think the best way that we can solve that is and I don't know how to do it, but I think I can imagine if the person deciding where the add dollars are being placed understands all the tools at their disposal and is able to do it as quickly and efficiently as everybody else, depending on what channel they use.
00:24:45.568 --> 00:24:47.284
I think they make the best decision.
00:24:47.284 --> 00:25:00.071
Maybe that's some other software, or maybe it's a programmatic exchange or something that ends up being the ultimate facilitator, making the market a little bit more efficient in that way.
00:25:01.260 --> 00:25:02.182
How do you think?
00:25:02.182 --> 00:25:05.589
okay, so let's maybe double click into the programmatic piece there.
00:25:05.589 --> 00:25:09.767
I love what you guys do.
00:25:09.767 --> 00:25:11.085
I would love to buy it.
00:25:11.085 --> 00:25:16.306
I want it on every screen, though I don't care whose network it is.
00:25:16.306 --> 00:25:19.226
I want the technology on every screen.
00:25:19.226 --> 00:25:32.017
There's so many of these place-based CTV networks, and programmatic does a great job of aggregating the supply into one format that I can buy over and over and over again.
00:25:32.017 --> 00:25:34.806
But everybody kind of has their unique thing, right.
00:25:34.806 --> 00:25:37.887
Reach TV they're a great place-based CTV network.
00:25:37.887 --> 00:25:40.527
Their hook is that they have exceptional content.
00:25:40.527 --> 00:25:43.886
You guys are the AI channel changer.
00:25:43.886 --> 00:25:46.747
Atmosphere TV might talk about something else.
00:25:46.747 --> 00:25:46.967
Right?
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