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Feb. 27, 2020

OOH Insider - Episode 015 - Bud Torcom, Founder of Habit Hot Sauce and Mazama Media

OOH Insider - Episode 015 - Bud Torcom, Founder of Habit Hot Sauce and Mazama Media

What does it mean to be 'authentic'?

No, serious question here. What does it mean?

To some, being 'authentic' is the mirage we create for superficial consumption.

You know the ones, where everything seems to just be going right for them. Shoot, social media has all but incentivized it but deep down you know that something about it is just...'off'.

For Bud Torcom, being authentic means just being himself. It's getting past the fear of judgement to a place where you can explore parts of yourself you didn't know. And sometimes? Sometimes not being able to relate is the most relatable part of our day.

This conversation goes deep (like, really deep) into a realm of relatability that every brand, advertiser, man, woman and child must experience at least once in this life because it is the key to unlocking the key to the human experience.

We talk about everything from Habit Hot Sauce to chat bots, How To Handle Haters and why shopping at local farms is not only good for the environment, but good for you in ways you didn't know (or at least I didn't).

Be the proverbial fly on the wall when we just pressed 'Record' during an incredibly enlightening and bonding conversation.

Grab your Habit Hot Sauce here: https://habithotsauce.com/

Follow them on the Gram at: https://www.instagram.com/habit_hotsauce/

And definitely connect with Bud on LinkedIn here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/budtorcom/

As always, you can connect with me on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/troweactual/

And if you found value in some takeaways, please consider joining our Facebook Group:

Support the show (http://oohswag.com)

I have entry level. I have entry level people here that, uh, I need them and I want them to graduate through things that I, that job that they're doing needs to be done. Uh, and I'm very, I have a lot of gratitude towards the job they are doing and I'm happy to have them, um, continue to grow, uh, by, I don't know.

I like there's so much just so much fame right now to this whole, like, not fame, but there's so much importance and there's so much razzle dazzle stuff on social media about being a CEO and everything like that, how it's supposed to be like super dope and everything, but I don't, um, I think he could have, I think he could be really, really happy and not be a business owner.

Actually. I think you have a much. Actually, I know that actually, I don't know anything. The one thing I know is I don't know anything, but I'm pretty, pretty close to knowing that people are, you have more people per capita, more people are happy as a, not only a business, not a post to those that do. It's funny because I had the, the event that I was at last night was a personification of what you just described to a degree.

And I'm standing in the lobby and it was in the city, New York city and looking at the guest list and, you know, um, everybody's CEO, COO CEO CMO, and I'm like, holy shit, this is some legit. Am I out of my league here? And obviously I thought that first, but second then pushed that away and uh, rode the elevator up and walked into the room.

And the seminar started and I'd spoke to, you know, just a couple of people before it got going. I'm thinking, gosh, there a lot of young CEO's and COO's in here. Like I know I'm in the city, but damn, there's a lot of young, younger people. Good on you for taking the time out of your evening to come better yourself, but shoot, what am I doing wrong?

So now the speaker, the speaker says, all right, how many people here are CMOs? And one hand goes up. I'm like, wait a second. That's all like 20 of y'all had CMO next to your name on this list downstairs. Now the guy's asking you and his hands aren't going up. And he goes, and how many of your CEOs and no hands go up.

It was just this way to humble the room. He goes, you're not the CEO of you know, of any company. If it's just you in your mom's bed. And that's sort of like, yeah, I was wondering where you're going with that, like that. Huh? This is really weird. It was a weird place. CEO's on Instagram, on Instagram. It doesn't mean that you can't be someday, but like also humble yourself, you know, before you go see the CEO, like do, do something, hire a person, employee, another human, like do something other than just change your job title on LinkedIn or post a picture of the Lambo you rented.

Yeah. I didn't even get, like, I was a bit, my child was just a business owner slash founder, um, for, I think it was like three years and we have. 10 people or seven people on 10 and then like just one of my mentors is like, you know, you guys need to you and your partner to change the CEO and like CFO or whatever.

Like she wants to be just because of like the appearances and stuff like that. And I was like, I don't really care about titles. So I was like, okay. But, um, but yeah, I don't know. It's kind of fascinating that people end up doing that, but that's, that goes back to, uh, um, the society that's pushing you right now.

Right? Like, uh, if you're not that, if you're not on a top and then you're not going to be happy and that's, that's the dream, right. It would be like the super rich CEO right now, because for some reason right now at this moment of time, um, they're cool, but they're not going to be, I mean, kid has five or 10 years.

It's not going to be cool. That anymore. So that's going to be interesting when that happens and to watch all the shifting go somewhere else would probably really good for that to happen too, because then we could work better as a team and you don't have everybody just trying to start like, um, agencies and other grandma's basement.

It doesn't really work out that well, if you don't have a good plan or the main good thing that people tend to overlook, um, is the ability to sell. So I see that all the time, uh, where somebody might have a really good idea and they really know like, um, they might even create a good product, whether it's a SAS thing, a SAS product or a food, I don't care what the hell it is actually.

But if they're, if they, if they can't go out there and sell it and get people fired up behind. And like really start like kidding people. Just like, yeah, that sounds awesome. I want some of that then you thought it's not going to work. I don't even care if it tastes really good because the thing is like, you need to convince yourself you're getting a meeting.

If you're trying to sell, like, in my case, like hot sauce, like our hot sauce is parking. It is, I didn't want to get in the hot sauce industry. Yeah,

I, yeah, I just, I just got into it because, uh, I really like making hot sauce for fun. And then I started making it just literally as a hobby and then, uh, my best friend and I made this one, perhaps just permitted. And we're like, this stuff is insane. Uh, and so I, I ate it so fast that I was just, I just kept on remaking it.

And I was going through by like a half gallon, every like week and a half, but every final hot sauce. Yeah. It was ridiculous. So didn't like creams. I mean, I was just putting it on everything and I just, I got to a point where I'm like, dude, this is needs to be, this needs to be a thing. Like, people need to know about this.

This is a revolutionary, I mean, it's probiotic. The taste is like nothing I've ever had before. So that's how it has this. Like it was too good. And then when I looked at the market and it's like, okay, Well, let's see refrigerated section, hot sauces. That's not a thing. And a lot of people told me, well, then don't do it because it's not thing you need to actually the guy who, I don't know if you've heard the shoots brewery, uh, but there are very large craft brewery.

I'm in there. My neighbor, my business neighbor here, Gary fish has been on my podcast and he's the founder of the sphere empire. And he started to a mentor of mine when it comes to the hot sauce and then just life and, you know, even hit him and telling me that like, no, you need to be in the hot sauce so much.

And with the other one, so you need to have a kill step and be able to have that thing be hash, to be shelf stable. Um, so that kills the probiotics and also makes it not taste as good. And so him telling me that, and then other people telling me like, no, no, no, it's not going to work. And I kept on being like, oh, that means there's a market.

And that means it's really going to work. So there was an opening, right? I didn't want to be with all, like when you get through going through the grocery store, Uh, you could find it like next to the sauerkraut and the kimchi and stuff like that in the fermented area. And it pops up. It's like a sore thumb, but a good looking one cause it's bread.

And so it's really stands on its own where a red bottle in the hot sauce aisle. It's not going to stand out very much because everything's fucking red. So this one, it gets a differentiator. So, um, our in central Oregon where we're in like 30 different locations, uh, they go through it pretty fast, uh, cause people get addicted to it cause it's so good.

And if you're listening to non central Oregon, here's a plug. I have a hot sauce.com. There you go. One more time for anybody that's habit, hot sauce.com. There's a reason that it's called the have a hot sauce. And I think that I'm going to go get some hot sauce after this cause uh, um, now I can, I can feel my, my gland satiating, wherever that is in my mouth.

And yeah, that's why I got a question for you, man. You know, we're both marketers, what do you, uh, so I've been testing a whole lot of different things when it comes to getting the word out on this hot sauce. And so, like I was saying before, it is unreal and the taste it's, uh, it's like nothing you've ever had for it.

So people always are like, well, what does it look cooler to basketball? I'm like, no, just don't even try it just doesn't it's place. So I'm trying to think of like, okay, how do I get that message across the people? One thing that came to we've been trying a bunch of different stuff that has been growing.

One thing that came to me while I was kind of brushing my teeth yesterday and I I'm going to test a little bit, but what are your thoughts on, uh, join the hot sauce revolution? What is the hot sauce revolution? That's that's where I'm, that's what I, you know, I would end up describing it a bit more that, you know, like, we'll join the hot sauce revolution.

It'd be like the campaign for a probiotic, organic non GMO, uh, just all the things gluten-free vegan. Uh, good for you. Vinegar free, no preservatives, all that sort of stuff is it's all the things that, you know, like when you get Tabasco, that's a bunch of vinegar with some peppers. The same with . If it gets the Serratia and don't get me wrong, I like Saracha.

But don't read that ingredient lists you'll feel bad about yourself real quick. There's all sorts of stuff you can't even pronounce. Well, ours is just peppers, uh, water, um, salt and some exotic spices I found in panicking. Yeah. So I was going to say, is it what sells it? Is it that it's great. Hot sauce made from awesome ingredients?

Or is it that it's probiotic? GMO-free all that stuff for me. The salad. Yeah. What's for you. Well, yeah, like for me, I, I think the simplicity of, Hey, we're not like, so actually a really good place to look at right now is how the meat councils are taking on the meat. Substitutes. Pork specifically, pork is just going toe to toe with these, you know, alternatives with things like beyond meat.

Right. And the, and the, oh my gosh, the creative team is excellent. And it's just like, Bacon, the only ingredient is pork or like it came from a pig it's just very in your face. Right? So, so there's not an angle with that, with the, with the brand of that you've created for it and habit with the genre that it is hot sauce, right?

It's a little bit like the fucking cab with it just walks into town like, oh shit, that's hot sauce. He just showed up. So I think you can, I think you can take an edgy approach to it and really push the envelope, all those other things that make it great are still things that make it great and are going to matter to people, but you need to get their attention first.

And if you can do that by pushing the envelope, I think you've got a pretty cool opportunity in that revolution. It makes sense. Cause it's, it's that right? You're challenging. The status quo. You're you're not in the aisle. I'm in the fridge. You got to go find me. You need to go find me. So, yeah. That's where the rebel illusion ideas come from.

I guess we could kind of play with a little bit of it. I I'm trying to think, like, is that something that's going to be, cause, cause I'm trying to get the point. I'm trying to get across as, how do I say? And then the other problem that you have as a marketer or as a business owner or anything. So problem, I keep on pulling my team out of it and I pull myself out of it.

I actually just did pull myself out of it is getting too close to a product that you're trying to market or service. Right? So because you work on this hot sauce. So for me, for example, for me being an example of getting too close to the product, because I work on habit every night, you know, I'm not watching Netflix or reading anymore, I'm fucking chopping peppers and making designs and doing marketing.

And then the day isn't the Zama building that. So two different companies. Anyway, I digress we've have it. You know, I, I, I get it. I it'd be why do I get it? Because I do it so much. So I understand. Uh, that has probiotic. I understand organic. I understand that it's just made of these ingredients. I understand that it's a, there's no plastic use at all in the packaging.

Um, I understand that it's, uh, it's, uh, there's a ton of, uh, probiotic, uh, uh, lactic bacteria in there that is super, super good for your gut health, which helps actually, uh, make you tempt less tempting to eat like that bag of potato chips, because bacteria will stop sending those signals to your brain that it wants to potato chips.

I, I understand that it goes amazing and bloody Mary's. I get that. It goes really good on broths, better than anything else. Okay. Here's the problem is I get that so much that I start to assume that other people get at least one 10th or maybe even one, 100th of what I get, because I get it so well, but the truth is that you have no fucking idea what my hot sauce is right now.

If it's the first time. Right. So that's where it's just like, okay, you gotta pull yourself back and be like, join a revolution or whatever it is. How do you pull yourself back enough so that when somebody sees it, they go, huh? That, that hot sauce I've never seen before. I need to put that in my mouth, but I think, I think you sorta just described it, that it was a beautiful thing to watch.

Take place first, a comment on getting too close to it. Um, in the opening pages of Ogilvy on advertising, he talks about Henry Ford criticizing a campaign manager and saying, this is, this is a great ad, but do we have to run it forever? And, uh, and the campaign manager's response was that, you know, sir, we haven't even run it yet because he was so close to it.

It felt like it was already this old dated copy and he was ready to move on to the next thing. But what you just described. Is the hot sauce that goes on a lot of things that maybe hot sauce doesn't go on and you've got to sort of fund concept there. Like it goes on that. Yeah, it goes on that. Have it hot sauce.

It goes on that, like, it can go in a bloody Mary. It can, it can, it'll make you not want to eat junk food. Like it does all of these things. It's almost this super hot sauce. It's not, it's that Tabasco. It's this, isn't your grandfather's Tabasco sauce that he dumped grudgingly on a pile of rice and butter or something.

This is habit, hot sauce. This is different. It does all of these things, right? Cause like when we go buy a car, we fall in love with the car. It's a beautiful car drives. Great. And we buy it because. And then as we drive that car for longer, we start to appreciate the finer qualities of it. We still love it.

It's still beautiful. Still drives like, like the day we got it, but we start to appreciate the craftsmanship or the functionality of this feature within the navigation menu. You start to appreciate those finer details. I think it sounds like that's just sort of where you're at. Right? You fell in love with this.

You became obsessed. You couldn't stop. And those other things didn't matter to you until it was time that they mattered. So I think you got something on your hands. All right. Well, I like that. It's not your grandpa's that's us too. Something in there. There's something in there.

This is fun. It's fun, man. I appreciate you. Yeah. So did you want to dive into billboard? I mean, we could just keep talking about being relevant because, um, the, the habit thing, so, right. So I know you from LinkedIn, right. And I know you from specifically from video, um, specifically from the, and just correct me on pronunciation from the Mazama side.

Um, Mazama, I'm sorry, Zama. Um, you had just said it too. Don't fuck it up, Tim. Um, so, right. So I know you from video from that side, but in terms of habit, it's mostly photographs, right? I, I don't, I haven't caught any video. Maybe there's some video, um, on, on other channels, but how do you determine, or do you even go through a, uh, decisioning tree, if you will to say, all right, this is w I, I post video on LinkedIn for this piece of my business and.

Pictures for this piece of my other business. What do you think about it? Honestly just comes out. Well, no, I mean, I, so the honest answer is it's just that we need to make more video for habit. So that's the honest answer. And so when I get more video and that's on the agenda is like start making some video.

Like my, my partner's been making some epic pictures, which, uh, you can see on their website or, um, if you follow me on LinkedIn, I pop them up from occasion from time to time. So we have a lot of still content on there. The video side, since I do a podcast. And since, uh, we just, you know, having kind of cameras all over Mazama, his office, you know, we're constantly find in thinking of content, constantly shooting it, um, and having fun with it.

So we have that, um, and we still do still shots and we sometimes even post on LinkedIn or I post, uh, not even, um, any, uh, photo or video and it's just long form copy. And that does surprisingly well, too, when you, when you mix it up, um, What we found that you want to do? Uh, that's been the most effective as far as engagement goes is a, like, um, basically we're finding a one-to-one to one ratio has been working just fine, uh, which is, uh, uh, picture, um, video and then, uh, no picture or video.

Uh, and it just kinda, it doesn't, I don't really think it matters in a secret. I think what really matters the most is anybody's listening to this thinking about like, oh, I'm going to start posting on LinkedIn and I'm going to go in this kind of sequence and everything like that. If you're not doing it yet.

But I care about that. I want to care about what you're doing as far as if it's video or, or photo or, or none of that. I would just care that you're doing. So start there start being like, I'm going to post, like, what's realistic for you. Like you want to become relevant as we're talking about, you want to become relevant.

So people understand and know that you exist and you have people coming into your inbox, wanting to work with you and wanting to have you on their podcast or wanting to like whatever the case is. You want to do that, then you need to put out consistent content. And that's the main key. So just start with that.

I don't even care if it's all, if there's no photos or videos and you just type out like two sentences a day on how you're feeling and how, how, and as long as you make it kind of business relevant, then that's what matters. And as long as the content is like, semi-good, you're going to start seeing the traction happening.

And, um, but then there's also another point on it, which is, uh, patient. 'cause it doesn't happen overnight. So I'll see people that will get into it and they'll start posting like fricking every day. And they'll go at hard for like three weeks to five weeks. And then it's just over and they're like, yeah, I didn't see anything from it.

I was like, huh, that's funny. You neither die until month six. It takes, it takes some time. Like there was some doubt that I was just like, nah, we're putting in a lot of effort. My team making all these videos, I'm posting all the time. I'm saying a lot of time cheese, I don't know, is anybody even watching my podcasts.

All of a sudden it is like our local, like the Vandoren community loves the show. And, uh, and it's turned into a big reference for a ton of, um, leads as well. But that didn't happen overnight. That happened after, um, I think it was month, six or month seven where all of a sudden. This huge influx of people knowing about Mazama, knowing I'm going to work out.

Here's the other cool thing about LinkedIn? If we're gonna talk specifically about that. Okay. I have sold a lot of hot sauce through LinkedIn and I did not know I was going to be selling the hot sauce when I decided to become serious on LinkedIn. So yeah, I decided to start being serious on LinkedIn, like, um, a year and at, well, longer than that really serious a year and a half ago, launched a habit in like June.

So we talking like almost a year of why I'm building this up from Azama and I still am as the main thing, I was just like, well, I'm a. It looks like I'm watching this hot sauce company and then you would have people that would tell me, I want to listen to them, but they'll also tell you this about other things and they're wrong.

Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You can't post that stuff on LinkedIn because it's a business platform and that's where you talk about business. I'm like, Hmm. Interesting. Turns out. There's such thing as a hot sauce business and a cupcake business. And it turns out that my connections on LinkedIn, it's a lot of people in the auto industry.

It's a lot of people in the e-com industry, turns out all those people have something in common. You know what it is, they eat fucking food. So is this like, it's like, you're going to have crossover and that does, and I don't care what you're trying to sell. Like if you are all of a sudden switching careers and you're going from selling SAS products to you're now a real.

I guess what all those connections, there's a percentage of them that one of us are gonna want to buy a house. And they liked working with you in SASA. They like following your content. Oh, it turns out that you're in the LA area and you're still in the LA area, or let's say you moved to San Francisco or you moved to New York.

I have connections all over the kind of connections. I have demand in London that I can't fulfill for our hot sauce right now, because it's just too expensive to ship over there and customs and all that stuff. And I don't have time to really figure it out right now, but, uh, yeah, man posts a lot, uh, have fun with it.

And then after you actually start getting into how you're gonna, that you're actually posting once you've accomplished that, that you're doing it. And, uh, and that you're seeing some results, which is going to take your moms that I'd care more about like, okay, you know, what, what what's, what's the real science behind, what should I should be doing?

And you're going to figure that out on your own, based on when you post, um, videos versus non-video. Uh, versus, I mean, versus photos versus, uh, just texts and stuff like that. So, or when you go live on LinkedIn or any of those boxes, so you'll start learning for yourself, what works best. So your audience, what your audience likes the most, how would you suggest to somebody to set up a reasonable measure of success?

Right. If we all agree, it's going to take time. It's going to take time consistency, and you're just gonna have to not fucking quit. So what should someone expect to see once they've put in that 6, 8, 10, 12, and 18 months of consistent? Well, if they actually care and if they actually talked to the people.

That are, if they actually getting in the conversations or that's the other thing, getting the conversations, getting the comments, like it's not just about posting. If you post them, walk away, you don't respond to your comments, then you're not going to develop the relationships that you don't know what they're going to turn into.

You never do the whole, the whole game. Like that's like, that's the same as like you showed up to a networking event and you didn't say anything the whole time and you just sat in the corner. Hey, you were there, you showed up, you posted, but then you didn't, you just sat there and you didn't do anything.

You think you're going to walk home with any business opportunities from that event? No, of course not. But Hey, you went so all of the relationships that I've developed at it become very strong on LinkedIn have come from responding to comments and in commenting on other people's stuff. And then I was following each other.

And then all of a sudden you see this like-minded, uh, philosophy. That I have that other people have, and then you continue to work. And then like, you know, Tim, you know, you're getting the, uh, billboards and stuff like that. I'm starting to think that I'll be pushing some like money that way. So as things developed, you just gotta be patient.

You don't know what's going to happen like a month or a year from now where I can end up be calling you, being like, Hey, I need some help doing some billboard buys in the Philly area. Uh, and you're like, well, you called the right guys. And, you know, when you start going down that road and that day I come and then on the opposite effect for me.

So it's like, Hey, I have some clients that really need help doing some advanced Facebook and Instagram marketing. And I'm like, well, it's in call direct now. No, that just happens from actually talking. And so we reached out, we don't know each other except for LinkedIn reach out and do a podcast like absolutely.

And now, um, we're talking and getting to meet each other, and this is not the last time we're going to talk. I guarantee that because I haven't had that happen yet with anybody I've talked to on LinkedIn, the relationships have continued to the point where I'm even meeting these people across the country all the time.

So, um, and, and that's the, like, I don't know, this is just more of a life lesson really, but, uh, like I could right now just be like, Tim I, who can use help on digital. Tell me right now. I need any business. Give me right now. And you'd be like, ah, geez. I don't know. I mean, maybe problem with cool. What's what's Bob's number.

You're I, I I'll get it back to you. I'm not that doesn't make sense. It's just like, I will like, just from us being kind to each other, we will be thinking of each other and it's going to come up organically and then the leads are going to be that much stronger. If you, if I did try Bob's number out of you.

And then I called Bob and then Bob called you to ask about me. You'd be like, ah, you know? Yeah, he's kind of, I just talked to him once. Uh, you know, you kinda, you kinda dug for your number to be honest with you. I mean, it's just all going to be off compared to. If you just hit me up and said, Hey, Bob could use your help.

He was asked in digital and that's and here's his number. And then I called and talked to Bob, and then Bob called you and said, Hey, what's this bud guy. You're going to be more like, oh, he's he really knows his shit. And he's super nice and blah, blah, blah. Right. That's what you're going to say about it. I don't know.

But hopefully you get my point. A lot of people, they just jumped to that. Let me ask your business right now. Um, And, uh, especially those spammers, like as soon as you send a connection request and then you accept it and they're like, Hey bud, I've just put together a new website and thought it'd be perfect for you and your agency.

It's like, I don't even read past the first sentence, but you can still end up doing that if you don't like, if you don't play this game of just networking and being kind to people, doing the right thing you do that people see through that bullshit. And that's true on LinkedIn too. It's true. When you go to the bend and when you go to those networking events, man, you go to those events and you start like, like really hustling.

And the whole conversations you're talking to people is just, you pitching the whole time. Nobody's gonna want to talk to you. You're like screw that relationships primal mechanism built in to for survival. Hey, people like this, just the, those, those types of people that you just described that are always pitching look and looking for that.

I need, I need that. You got, you got any of them referrals. You got any of them referrals. Hey man. Hey man. I think that over the thousands of years that we've been on this planet, we've just sort of started to weed them out. And now they're just exposed at scale. All we did was give them a louder megaphone and let them go into more rooms and, you know, put off more people.

So it creates more opportunity. I think for people that are genuine, especially the genuine people, just sort of lurking, um, off on the sidelines, go on Tam. I wish. I wish I could do that. I wish I could do that. I wish I could do video. I wish I could do. And then they just wish, wish, wish, wish, wish. Then they either do it or they turn into haters.

I don't, I don't know. It's one of those two things. They're fun. Do you have any, oh, do I have any, oh my goodness. How much time do you have? Yeah, I got haters and that's actually been a really, I'm not a people pleaser, but I like people to like me, if that makes sense. And, um, I don't care if they don't, but I prefer that they do so I won't compromise my values.

I won't change who I am. Uh, but I do my best to be accommodating. So. Through this whole billboard adventure of mine and the at-home insider show, I decided through conversations just like this, that, Hey, gosh, it, it sort of makes sense. If I create a group for small, independent billboard owners agencies that maybe aren't exposed or don't understand how out of home is an opportunity for, for them to grow their own agency, to grow revenue, to just be a better equipped agency.

Um, so I've created this group and there's some folks in it and, um, silver on Facebook, but I've reached out to, this is hysterical. I met someone on Twitter. That I've never personally met in person via Twitter and less than 30 days later, they made a very significant investment in digital billboards, in a state that I don't work in.

And I was able to facilitate that, um, directly through my job, but they were looking to also purchase other parts of the state that we didn't have coverage in. So I reached out to a couple people down that way and a few were receptive and one owner of a small billboard company in the neighboring town that I had just received a very significant investment for.

Um, I said, Hey, I'd like to connect with you, get to know you and, you know, learn a little bit more about what a, what a great referral might look like for you and this individual, the president owner of this company. And they responded, I don't know why you would need that from me. I'm sure you could just ask someone in your office.

I was just like, oh, you don't, you don't, you don't get it, dude. Oh, you don't get it at all. And I was, I at first I was offended, but I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? What did I do? I didn't do anything. I was a little pissed. And then I really took a step back. I said, what, why am I upset about this?

Like, I'm upset about not having, you know, being able to sell her. It doesn't matter to me. Um, that's when I realized, like, there's some, some people that just aren't part of the plan, there's just some people that are not part of your plan. And I had to force,

I think it is though. Right, right, right. You can't make it, but you can't make everyone happy. Right. Right. So how do you do, how do you deal with the haters? Is it fuel for you? Do you just brush it off? Ignore it. Do you. Does it ever get under your skin? You know, it's uncle, uncle G, right? Who down? What'd you say, uncle?

Uh, I don't follow him, uh, too much at all. I mean, I know of him and stuff, but, um, I, uh, I've taken Gary Vaynerchuks approach to it. Um, which, uh, I don't do a lot. I don't follow a lot of, I love the kindness stuff. Obviously. I say a lot. Um, I was, I was into, um, being kind before I followed him. I used to not, I used to be a fucking Dick, but anyway, that's another story.

Um, uh, let's see. Dick haters. Oh, um, it's just, uh, uh, you know, and he, I think he was right about this is like when somebody takes time to digest your. And are your content. And then they just respond with a negative stuff then, and that their life is not there. It's not going, things are not going good for them right now, because if that's what you're doing with your time, you're just like consuming other people's content and you're throwing out hate.

Then things must not be doing too good up in your head. And I've told her and I'm like, you know, that's probably true. And so I, you know, I started to get haters, um, and I, and I just post mostly, actually all the time positive stuff. I got haters haters from me, like one of the big things we're pushing as for anti-slavery, uh, sex trafficking, um, and the sex slavery business, which is very, um, Rampant and, uh, the world, even our small little community of bend Oregon here on mountain town, we have, that's what we're fighting.

And I had people that started hating on that and I was just like, huh,

well, they're, they're like going under what was one of the one person saying? Um, and this guy is like a troll. And I was like, man, I feel bad because I think he's just doing it for the attention. And again, then I felt really bad for him. And he's saying that like, you know, it's, you're not a slave. If it's your choice, uh, talking about prostitutes and it's their choice, which that's a whole nother conversation, but the skinny part of that conversation is just this.

It's not their choice at all. They're forced into it. And I don't want to get into anyone that, because it gets to be a really dark place, but do some research. If you're listening, if you think that sex slaves are like pretty women where the, the woman chooses be a prostate and everything like that, look up Romeo.

Learn. It's not like that they're forced into this shit, but anyway, that, and, um, uh, I've had people that have like really gone off about other positive stuff before. And, uh, I remember one person, uh, uh, sexually from England. And this is, this is of like, this is how I got my English demand. And it's also, we launched, uh, a English branch.

Uh, we're in England now for Ms. Alma media. And, uh, our first clients came from this hater, believe it or not. So this hater, it was, um, on. Uh, one of the most popular posts I've ever done on LinkedIn, it was asking if you'd rather do the left or the right design when we were trying to figure out what logo and bottle we were going to do for habit.

And the habit on the left was cursive. And the habit on the right was not a, and it's the logo that you see today? Well, we altered it a bit, but basically what were they see today? And so I basically asked people on LinkedIn, like vote left or right. Which one? And it went off, they got in front of 55,000 people, um, thousands of comments, tens of thousands of likes.

Um, and it, it was just insane. And, uh, this one guy in England and owns a branding company, he really went off saying that, uh, words like he didn't have the best English too, which is funny for him being an English. Uh, his grammar, grammar and spelling was subpar at best, but he was just going off about. How you need to hire a branding company for this.

And everybody is given all these opinions from a parent's CEOs, quote, unquote, are a bunch of fucking dumb asses. And then one of his English buddies jumped on agreeing with him and, and, uh, it was like, holy shit. And by the way, the majority of the people that did weigh in that were CEOs CFOs. Some of them were like the CEO and founder of hob, the biggest goddamn computer company in the world, Gary fish, the guy was just talking about Scott Allen, the CEO of hydro flask, just to name some, huh.

Uh, you know, that's, that's pretty insulting. And so he leaves this long paragraph saying that, and then, uh, his buddies jump on. And I just, I just basically responded with, uh, something along the lines of, I, I appreciate your input and that was it. And then, uh, and then more hay came from him and the other.

And I'll just say, I appreciate you guys' thoughts. And what ended up happening was, um, a bunch of people that were more of a fan of mine, I guess. I don't know how you want to put it, but like Don haters started jumping in and, and calling him a motherfucker. And then there was just this huge argument. I wasn't even a part of it besides saying thank you for your input of other people just saying you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

The scribes are more like one of the cons of this guys had more, uh, likes and comments on this post and all your posts combined,

but going back to Dara's point, like, I didn't see the point of getting upset and saying any of those things because, well, one, I didn't notice it can happen, but some people did for me. Um, but two, so as opposed to continue to go on, he continued to be negative about stuff. Um, And one day I just messaged him on direct on DMS, like, Hey, uh, blank.

Um, are you doing okay? And that's, that's all I asked her the question mark. Cause I was generally concerned. I mean, all you're leaving on my post-surgery is negative stuff and he's just like, no, I'm doing fine. I'm doing fine. Everything's great. And then all of a sudden he turned into this raving fan because I.

And, uh, he he's one of the guys that's demanding to buy some, and he said, he'd paid for all the shipping. I need to get back to them on that, on how to get it to England. And, um, and, and referring us to people out there now that Mazama is out there. And, uh, him back in the charge is what to just him talking about.

That led to a ton of people from England, seen it, and a bunch of those people from England wanting habit and helping me with different ideas on posts. One guy, one foodie in England who said incredibly good, uh, Instagram food expert, giving me all these tips for free. Um, another guy that just became our first client, huge client that came in because of that hater.

That's the reason that why you even connected when I filed it back, I'm like, oh, we connected right. When that guy did. You must've been connected with a guy in one way or another. So I guess it comes the other point of just like, you know, why get upset about it when somebody says something mean about you on LinkedIn or whatever it is that makes the algorithm, it doesn't matter what they say.

It makes the algorithm get in front of more people that they're connected with that would have never known you existed before. So don't get upset about it. It turns out it turns into more people turns into more attention and attention turned if done correctly, turns into revenue. So don't get upset about it ever.

There's no reason to it works. It's great. Even when they say like really awful things. So, um, I don't know. I that's how, uh, but you also ask the question, does it get under my skin? Um, it has, it would that thought except one old guy was going off once on me. So just for me to be honest, um, cause I'm. Uh, just like what we were saying before the show.

I don't know what the fuck's going on. Um, so, or I don't wake up every day at 4:00 AM and then do yoga and all that shit. I'm not. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So I I've, I've let, I have let it get to me once. And it was this guy that, uh, he's been trolling on me for a while and he's, uh, he's old and he also has really awful spelling and grammar.

It seems to be consistent amongst the haters. They seem to not be able to type. Um, and, uh, he, he was just going off about, uh, uh, well, was it the songs? Oh, you kids and your social media, blah, blah, blah. I was posting just hating on me. Hard was just like, he's like that. How did you even get around before?

How do you even like get to know people before social media? I find my team helped me come up with this. Cause this had enough of this guy and I was just like, I was like, I don't know. How'd you get around before rotary phones? Ah,

but were you a hater your whole life or was that just a, that came along? Yeah. And so that, that really pissed him off and he started going, he started saying that he was going to come and like that we have, we can call and like point like punches like Zuckerberg or so he's just kind of fucking funny.

We're like, okay man, people, LinkedIn universe. That's great.

What about, uh, yeah, you seem to handle it. Good. I mean, you weren't really going off. I mean, uh, the, the thing, I don't know what's wrong, I guess the thing is, is like when you start thinking that, uh, when you start thinking if there's nothing wrong, Um, cares, maybe.

I don't think so. I think it's just you and I, I think you just think that everybody's now looking at that sometimes, and you're like, you know, maybe one person saw it and maybe they read half the sentence and they forgot about it. Seven seconds later. Cause they got an email and they've got a meeting in 20 minutes and it would just it's they have their own life to worry about.

They're not necessarily concerned about what someone did or didn't say to you or that you only got six comments this time and not eight last time you must be. Oh yeah. Yeah. That's kinda funny. Um, that's what people care about themselves the most. So why did you stop getting stuff? Having such a huge ego.

They can, people are really caring about this right now. And all they really care about is, um, uh, which is a good tip. Marketing, whenever I, for my clients or for habit or whatever, whenever I remember which I try to remember all of them all, we do remember all the time and sometimes the message can slip because again, we're human.

So you make the, you always make the client, the hero. And as soon as you start making the business, the hero like, oh, we've been in business since 1952. And we're great because we have all these wars. Nobody gives a shit. No, I care about how are you going to make their life? How are you going to make their life easier?

They're they're Luke Skywalker, you're Yoda as a business. So how has your, how are you going to help them basically destroying the death star instead of no, we're the best we have all these awards. This is not sounds like you've built quite the story brand. Yeah, Donald Miller is good. He's good, man. He's so good.

And that's a, it's funny because just last week, same conversation. We we've been here since 1963 and I listed him and we're just on cool grounds like that. And clients like this are always good. And I said, Dave, no one fucking cares. No one that comes here and spends money with you was even born back and they do not care and they good time while they're here.

Can they drink and get a little fucked up with their friends and then go float down the river tomorrow and camp in a tent. Can they do that? Great. If they can do that for a reasonable price, really clean, they don't care that you've been here since Pocahontas came through. Like, it just doesn't matter. No, it just doesn't.

And so that I, yeah, the downhill you're right. And you know, one thing I was just thinking about does the hot sauce revolution lineup to what we're talking about right now, we're making sure that the client is the hero does join the hot sauce, revolution lineup with that. I think you should look at the canned water, move from it.

Look at ugly. Look at liquid death. Um, they're putting seltzer in a can, which has been available at grocery store 99 cents since, since you know, teens, and they're just, they're putting it in cans with better processes, you know, fewer ingredients, just like habit. And they're building brands around water.

And I think that what's it called ugly. Ugly is one of them a huge, huge Thomas. He's pretty active on LinkedIn. And then the other one is liquid death, which is actually out of the UK. If I'm not mistaken,

ugly drinks. Cool. So I'll check them out. It's cool, man. Cool. Swag, cool brand. And that's really, I mean, they're just ahead of the curve, obviously we're already there in some ways, but, um, you know, with established brands that that may have been doing it for a while, but where, where things are transcending the product, right.

It's water it's it's soda water, right? It's it's, it's just, you know, we saw that, we saw that rage a couple, a couple of years ago with the different flavors and they almost got it. They almost got it. Right. But these guys are building legitimate brands around canned water and it's incredible. So ugly was the first one.

What was the other one? Liquid.

Yeah, so I, yeah, I don't know if people are seeming to joy. I mean, I'm a big, like I'm, I'm just inhaling. Bubble is nowadays. Uh, cause I've never, I haven't been in the soda for like actually I haven't been able to basically I haven't had soda, uh, my 14 years that's a whole nother story, but so I, it hasn't been on the table for me, so it's been water and then LaCroix started to become cool.

And I was just like, oh, I guess I'll try it. And now I'm just like inhaling bubbly. So it's, it's quite the trend to jump on, but you're right. It's, it's carbonated water. Um, and it's, it's how you make the brand. So yeah, I don't know if joy, that's what I'm trying to make sure you position in the client as a hero.

Like if they're joining something, that's something that's sometimes I think they would like. Right. And what are we to be a part of something? Do I, when I joined, do I get a habit, hot sauce sticker, um, to go slap on something and take a picture of, and post to Instagram to drive a ton of engagement before we released this for whatever it w what, what is that revolution?

Do you want it to look like in the real world? So I, I I'm thinking, well, I, my basic thought on it, it was just saying you got yourself a power habit and start pouring down everything. But I mean, we have stickers and, uh, I'm getting into text. Marketing has been incredibly successful for habit and for a bunch of my clients, like 1600, 1623% ROI we've had on a couple of.

Uh, which is just like, uh, okay. Um, text messages has a 98% open rate. Sure. Um, maybe took like join the hot sauce revolution by testing, join now to 5 9, 2, 3 8, which by the way, it's not a don't do that.

It's going to happen. Join something that you wish you never joined.

Uh, but maybe that would be a trigger to add. We'll send you, um, uh, some habits stickers and, and a coupon or something like that for half off habit. And then they actually get something tangible in the. Um, I don't know that that might not be a bad idea, um, uh, as a way to get them to join and then they get that.

But I, I, my original thought is I'm joining the revolution is just like being a part of it. Like I'm not, I'm not putting, uh, bullshit preservatives on my food anymore. I'm not putting vinegar on my food anymore. And all these chemicals I'm putting healthy, Promac raw, uh, wives, uh, hot sauce on my food. And then hopefully that bleeds over into like the rest of your life as it has for me.

And some of our spans that are made at my partner is like, you know, we're eating fermented everything nowadays because of just been feeling all the benefits, like I've lost like 15 pounds and, um, and I'm working out and I have a lot of energy and everything like that. Cause I'm having like Milky for all the time.

Fermented milk. So fricking good when you make it yourself a kombucha, um, uh, Um, obviously have an author, sauerkraut, kimchi pickles. Um, there's so many fermented foods that just have all these like really of probiotics that these probiotics that they do. And we, they, they control more sensors and your gut biome, then your brain has sensors for telling your body what to do.

So the bacteria really is what drives your brain and say, this is what I'm hungry for is because your, your GI tract is, that's what it's craving. It's not your brain. Your brain is just fucking related to the brains. It's the messenger. It's the bacteria that are telling it. So you start all of a sudden flipping that, that shitty bacteria out.

That's craving potato chips all the time. And McDonald's French fries and shit like that. With good bacteria where it's asking for like veggies and lean clean food that doesn't have any antibiotics because antibiotics like you eating. With antibiotics. Antibiotic means anti-life so it doesn't just kill the good, the bad bacteria.

It kills all the bacteria antibiotics. And your gut is like nuking. It takes two years for your gut biome to recover when you take it. So be really careful when you do that. Yeah. So it's not just like, oh, I'll be good this week. And next week I'll, I'll be better. It's like, no, you've got, kind of got to build it up for two years and then you'll do better.

So that's kind of, what's kind of a big deal since I got serious into this with, uh, because, um, I had gout at the, at the young age of fucking 32 and that blew my mind cause I was vegan for two and a half years until my gap happened. And I started bringing in tons of fermented foods. Like it's not even funny habit, went on everything, fermented foods, everywhere and tons of vegetables.

And I started, I brought dairy in because it lowered uric acid and that's gone away and that's been fantastic. But the other fantastic thing that's happened, that's never happened to me before in my life because I've struggled with my weight, uh, my whole life basically. And I've always had, I'm sure people can relate with this, but I've always had this bad.

Uh, where I have an angel on my left shoulder and a devil on my right. And the angel says, ECOS, a jalapeno potato chips, and, or the angel says, donate them. And the devil says, eat them. And they just, it's a battle between them. And if I'm doing good, then the angel wins and I won't eat the potato chips, but most of the time the devil wins and I'll eat the entire fucking bag, party size bag of potato chips.

So for the first time in my life, that argument is even happening. Wow. It's interesting because I think you just flipped a, another light bulb for me in that. Uh, probably about month and a half ago, I started shopping at there's a farm stand, like five miles from my house. And I found out that they had 10% off for veterans on Wednesday night.

Cause my, my perception was that it was always more expensive. Right. You know, it's going to cost me a lot. Yeah. So I went one Wednesday night and I, you know, I'm looking at stuff and I buy everything on, on, uh, on like I'm not in volume price. Right. I mean, and dollar and all that stuff. So that's how I buy everyday.

Um, look at some of the prices, you know, the beef that is from their farm, from their cows that are out back the eggs that are from the chicken coop that I can see a hundred yards away, the milk from the farm down the road and the vegetables that were grown locally. And I'm looking at all the prices and this isn't much different than the grocery store.

So I started shopping there and I've been telling people I'm like, I just feel better. Like I said, probably I'm working out less since I've been going there, which I don't know if that's good or bad thing, but it's

just energetically. I feel a lot better, but I'm eating everything's. We were, Ganek like, get everything's grown on a farm that is five miles from my house. So are you a veteran? I am. I am. So thanks for support, man. So that, that point about the beef that you're right. And the antibiotics, like I'm just not putting that shit in my body.

No. Yeah. And so, yeah, it turns out like, uh, you know, vegans one thing, and I did that for awhile about two and a half years now in vegetarian. And, uh, the thing is, is that I'm do, I, I am doing a lot, but I mean, I got a gout as a vegan, which makes you wonder, because what causes gout is meat and alcohol. I definitely was doing the alcohol, not alcoholic, but I live in a fucking craft beer mountain town where we have more breweries per capita than anywhere in the us.

So casual beers is just a thing here. And so I've had to cut that out and it's turned out to be a good thing. But, um, but the meat, I, I, I wasn't. And so then I was worried about bringing dairy and the Lord, God, I don't know because I'm a good resource, but I went and I found a cow, a dairy cow. I met the damn thing, cute little cow.

Anyway, I met her, I met her and, uh, and she's not full a man by ice and she runs his pastors and she's not hooked up to a machine. And, uh, I get milk from her once a week. Cause I bought like a share of it and it's delicious. And, uh, and I don't have any antibiotics cause in the milk it's the same. Like those dairy cows are shot, which they are, uh, to make them not get sick because they're so close quarters and they have these machines making cuts on their utters.

Cause that's what happens actually. So would that the standard milk that you see at the grocery store? Like I'm not talking about like the stuff that comes like, you know, when you think of a milk jug with the blue top on or wherever it is, the standard milk junk, that shit, that stuff, that stuff, uh, the FBA allows a certain percentage of bleach in it.

Yeah. And they let

yeah, yeah, shit. You're not supposed to eat. Right. That stuff. They allow a certain percentage of, uh, bleach and milk, uh, so that the dairy farmers, um, good job, whoever lobbyists one, this convince the FDA to allow this to go through, but that's a hell of a, so we got the bleach in it. Why didn't you put bleach in it because there's blood and puss in it guys.

And so if we bleach it it'll be white. Oh yeah. You could do that. Then one conversation that was.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's great. And that's the other thing about going to the farmstead? My, my milk comes in a glass jar, probably much like yours and I bring the jar and I feel like I'm doing something good for the environment too, while drinking the best. Talk about that I've ever had. It's so good.

Isn't it? When you do it right. I only ever pour myself a half a glass because it's just so good. And it's so rich and so creamy. The, the body, like everything from there, it's, it's almost ridiculous. Cause I try to have these conversations with people at work. I'm like, oh my gosh, I have the best forms. No idea.

Look at what I ate last night, you can get these frozen meals. They're there for, for 20 bucks. And with the 10% off, right. Four for $18. And it's like the grandma of the farm made them and packaged them. So I come home and I have meatloaf and I have, you know, roasted red potatoes. It's great, man. It's it's, it's the same money it's costing me the same or less than going to the grocery store.

Yeah. And it's a lot better on your body man. Yeah. Tax and a hell of it by having a bunch of, you know, who knows how much bleach and antibiotics is not in your milk anymore. So when an add blood and pus, all four, all four of those things you probably don't want. And that's, what's in. Right. And we, and with, you know, the world being crazy Corona virus and all these different things going on, it's sort of just nice to know where your food's coming from.

Yeah. Coronavirus. That's another, that's a great example by the way. Uh, not to go on a tangent, but here's a tangent. That's a great of, of marketing just, uh, gone wrong, man, but it works so well, but it's just gone so fucking wrong. You just have, well, you have the news and the internet and the cable news just needing clicks.

And so we've gone into an age of there's this book called trust me online from Ryan holiday. Who's my favorite author. It was his first book. And he talks about how you was able to get any story whatsoever and he teaches you how to do it too. How do any story picked up by a blogger and how to watch that go all the way up in the beyond parking and the NBC nightly news.

And it can be.

Oh, he did. He does it all the time. Like you just gotta really he'll just have a completely fake story to promote some movie or some, some actress or some whatever, or American apparel was, she used doing it for. And he would just like, watch us. He would have this fake stuff just go up because it would get clicks and nobody cared.

And there was no integrity. There's no checks on whether or not this is true story or not. So with the Corona thing, you know, you just see when I was at the gym, I don't watch cable news, but I was at the gym. I was just watching like the flash, uh, on the TV just said, Corona virus, outbreak, an outbreak was the scariest fun.

I can think of all red. And it covered the entire Corona virus saying, it's just looking like this. Like, if you looked at this, you'd think we're gonna die. Everyone's gonna to fucking die. And so that's what everyone starts saying. And it just continues to feed that when the truth is, is yeah, it's a virus and people are dying and it sucks.

And that's a, that's a bummer, but more people have died from influenza this year, then the coronavirus and that's the flu better or worse. There, there it is. See, I I've been at this since I came back from the city last night and I'm like, shit, I sure hope I don't have the Corona virus, but now he's telling me that more like

it's killing us, it's killing the same people. It's killing the same people that the flu kills every year, uh, very old and very on. And, uh, so, you know, you're neither one of those. You keep, you take care of yourself. You keep on getting milk that doesn't have antibiotics and possible. And, and your good meat and stuff like that, you know, they'll get over the call, but I've had, I had this one, I did one podcast with, uh, Brian Dunning.

Who's the, uh, uh, podcast host of Skepta. Very intelligent, very popular podcasts. It's uh, yeah. And, um, if you were to step towards, sorry. Yeah, so he was on a guy that's really way more intelligent than I am. And, uh, so that was doing everything I could to keep up with them intellectually, um, which I think it turned into a pretty good show and we had a lot of good laughs and then, and I still, uh, chat with them and I, I referenced, I'll hit him up.

I'll text them. I'm like, whenever we were in the base of my, Hey, I need some help on this. He's like tell them that I'm like, thanks.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Um, but I w w we retired, I had people, we can't use conclusion that we were thinking. Or he was thinking now I'm just claiming it as it was a, we is definitely he and I now agree with him that, um, people need to be afraid of something. People want to be afraid of something. So we live in a society right now where everything's taken care of for us to like you, like, you have this perfect farm right next to you.

I can order food or get whatever the hell I want within like a day or less with Amazon. Uh, like the cars drive themselves. Now, uh, you can be anywhere you want in the world with just a plane ticket within 24 hours. Uh, you can look up anything you want in the super computer. That's more powerful than computers that they had that did the Apollo missions.

Just, we are, we all have it. We're like cyborgs. And so basically we, we were not worried about a saber tooth tigers or an angry. Uh, coming, we aren't, we aren't worried about a bunch of angry Canadians invading and killing us in America. Like, like that's not, that's not a part of the equation. So you start thinking of like 5g and, oh my God.

As soon as they're killing all the radiation, when it turns out it's just radio waves and it's a bunch of bullshit, or you start going down other conspiracy rows or coronavirus, wherever there's this, because people need to be afraid. Like something they need to have their attention. That's something is to be fearful of.

There needs to be something. And then that's what allows this stuff to really like take off and blow up. Um, I find that to be a true lot of time when I look at something, if the numbers started coming back from coronavirus. So like, you know, uh, half the people that got the virus are dying, then I'd be like, I want to be talking about this.

And I'm like, yeah, that shit is accurate. You gotta lock this shit down, but it's not that it's like, I forget what it is, but it's not even in the double digits percentage wise, I even closed. Um, so you started throwing some black plague numbers around like 30, 40, 50% then you're like, oh, okay. Yeah, no, nobody should go outside

everyone in China. That's uh, you know, just th th those are crazy things. It's funny to think how we've adapted. Right. We, we talked a little bit now about some primal instincts and how those things translate into the modern world. It's interesting to think how many of those things there are, and that we don't know how they're impacting and affecting us on a daily basis, right?

The, the, the fight or flight mechanism that you don't use, right. There is no saber to tiger, but you do need to have that reaction. Your body's still geared that way, and it's going to react to whatever that thing is, whatever that mechanism is. And, you know, For relevancy, right? The reticular activating system that says, Hey, that looks familiar.

That, that I can trust that thing. I'm looking for a Subaru. All of a sudden I started noticing all the Subarus. Um, that must be like me. And now I feel like I'm part of the pack or whatever we see advertising, then all of a sudden it's relevant because now all of the sudden it's relevant. So these things have adapted over thousands of years and it'll be fun to watch how they morph as we find more ways to advertise to people as we find different saber tooth tigers and things to be afraid of.

Um, yeah. We'll find a virtual reality advertising. No kidding, man. It's just it's it's it. I I'm keeping my eyes on augmented reality. What do you think is VR AR or, or some something that we're not seeing yet? What do you think it's gonna be. Oh, um, I mean, Facebook gave me a Oculus quest actually he's like a bird.

I was at their conference last year and he had an Oprah moment where everybody in the Cubs got the Oculus quest. Um, but, uh, you know, it it's cool. Um, but I, I, I, I don't know, one day I think it thinks something has spent a bit more time on is this thing, that one that I wish didn't win, which is voice. And, uh, that just learning how to make apps within Google Siri and, uh, and Amazon Alexa, uh, is much more of like an emerging thing that people aren't taking advantage of the same way, uh, like text message marketing.

It seems so like, oh, obviously very few companies do it very, very, very few. Um, and, uh, when it comes to VR, AR it depends on like how. How small can they make the goggles? Um, what I think is going when answer your question, if you have any pick, I think it's gonna be BR uh, because I haven't seen an AR uh, piece of equipment really take off yet.

Um, nor have I seen it as one of VR, but VR is definitely had more success than AR has. So it's just, I think they'll both end up being a part of our future. It's just, uh, which one do you decide to spend money in when it comes to how you're going to market for your clients, for your business? Maybe we are, but that's only if you're looking to forecast five years from now.

Um, if you're looking more on being cutting edge like today, then that'd be looking at tech tax and, uh, uh, text message marketing and, um, messenger box. Um, let's talk about messenger bots. You can just pull, pulled off like your craziest thing. So let's talk messenger, bots and voice, um, messenger bots. Is it exclusive to Facebook, Instagram?

Are you seeing people use it on their sites? Where are you finding the most effective uses? Uh, well, we personally use it like mostly, I mean, we built a few to go on websites, but, um, that's like, uh, the website is like a, uh, you know, somebody there and if they want to talk, they'll toggle on the lower right hand corner and it'll pop up and then we have an answer, a few questions and that's fine.

Uh, it's better than not having it, but where we can see more actual results, like, Hey, you put in a dollar and it spit out $4 or $10 is on asking for acquisitions through messenger via Instagram, Facebook, and sending people on the message. Um, we've seen a ridiculous amount of success building out bots.

We, we filled out one bot that, um, can take peoples or people will take a picture of their ID and a picture of their insurance and see if they qualify for a weight loss surgery and then set an appointment with the doctor for that.

Yeah, it was pretty cool. So, um, and so that client is stoked because it's working. And so, um, the other, did you choose that piece of the equation because it was the qualifier or because that's like the biggest pain in the ass part of dealing with every doctor or both? Uh, it was, it was because like, so, um, we need.

We wanted serious leads. So you can make it, you can make a lead gen ad on Facebook, uh, and get a bunch of leads that are shit really easily. As Facebook, Google, Facebook lead gen ad career region ads, and the person just puts in their name and number autofill and do it. And I had signed up and then you get a lead email to you immediately from Facebook.

Sounds dope and it's cheap. What could go wrong? Right. Problem with that technology is it's too easy for the consumer to do it. So it's been something I've been playing with for like five years as those ads. It's really hard to make them work. You need a team. That's has a sub 62nd response time on leads.

That's number one, that's fucking, almost impossible to find. So first, do you have that? Yeah, I give a shop. Not don't even do it because it's too easy to do. And so since somebody doesn't have to type in their name or their email, they just hit. Most of the conversations between the sales rep and that league along the lines of this.

Hey, you saying leave with your Facebook? No, I didn't. No, no, you did. No, no, I definitely didn't and that's that's most of the conversation, but they did, they did, I I've talked to these people personally and I've been able to convince them that they did. And I'm like, that's right. I do kind of remember that it's like asking somebody what they had for breakfast today.

Like, uh, you know, a lot of times they don't really remember, especially if you ask them what they had breakfast yesterday. Like, cause most fucking sales response times is like post 24 hours. So, you know, Hey, not today, but say, what did you eat for breakfast yesterday? Uh, I was not having a hard enough time sitting, you know?

Yeah. Right. If you're just cruising on face. Yes. If you're just cruising on Facebook while taking a shit and you're like, yeah, I'm kind of interested in a new ADI and you had signed up to get some information on a test drive and keep on going. And then a day and 12 hours later, somebody calls. You might actually be like, no, I really didn't do that.

It's the equivalent of walking down the street in the city and taking the flyer to the restaurant that you're not going to go to the guy I'll just take. Yeah, great analogy. I handed out all hundred brochures today, boss and boss, like eight men.

Uh, that's a fantastic analogy. So what we did and your, and your problem there with, uh, with, uh, uh, handing out the brochures and see if I can find algae first. But so for that, we switched it up to be like, okay, um, Dennis, a picture of your health insurance, and we'll be able to see if you qualify. So now the person has to be like, okay, I'm opening my wall.

I'm finding my health insurance card. I'm now taking a picture of it with my phone and sending it on messenger. And they came there from an ad. They saw on Facebook that they clicked sign up with a messenger icon and open up messenger. And then a bot told them, okay, just take a picture and then we'll see if it verifies.

So now this person, actually, they actually care. They can just take the flyer. They took the flyer. And in essence, they gave the kid, maybe let's just say they gave him a dollar. Like, yes, I will go. And they'll get that dollar back. If they actually go into the restaurant, doesn't mean that, that, you know, they can still say whatever to the dollar, but they did give up some, they did take some time.

They did do something to more than just tap a button. It took a lot of effort. So that's where those things end up becoming successful. And then from there, my team just built it out on top of that. My team were just like, all right. So if that's the key to make, at least. Then how do we make it to go from beginning to end, which Andy's or book appointment in there, um, and their software for them to come in and send them a confirmation, you know, and all that stuff.

And so that just built over time to do all that. Right. And so, and for a business that for rabbit shoot for any business, just to be able to have that, and that can run 24 hours a day, seven days a week, 365 days a year to, to equip a, a man staff to do that and to do it effectively would never be economical and would probably be possible from a, uh, a talent standpoint or a process standpoint to just keep that many.

You just couldn't do it. No, you have a lot of tire kickers and stuff, but that's not the say shin. So they have a, they have a team and actually we have a team to. Uh, people that will just kind of oversee all the messages coming in and I'll see somebody drop off or something. And, you know, you could just come back in and be like, Hey, this is about anymore.

This is Sally. And I was just here to help you change your life. Um, you still have the, we just needed a picture of your ID if you have a second. Oh, sorry. There's human elements still does help. Um, but you don't, you could still like, we have, we have, we have ones that come all the way through, but I would still like, you're going to watch the master campaign if it wasn't this, I would, I would not just think that the bots is going to take care of everything for you.

Keep an eye on it every day. Any so for one person, how many campaigns could they look over at one time? I think that's where the advantage, uh, for, for a person. I, I, yeah, that answer would be, let's see, trying to think of the call center. Um, I think one person can overlook. Like, I think it's like 200 and 250 conversations at a time.

I mean, overlook and see

ones are coming in and, and that two 50 is always, it's always changing and morphing. Yeah. Well, I mean, we can get it up a bit higher and we have, but sometimes we're like, it's actually better if it's a bit less. Cause then they have more time to give some TLC. You see it. Some people are just in and they gave some of their information and they just didn't want to fucking talk to a bot.

It. And then there a real human comes on. You're just like, Hey, I just want to see if I can help you. I'm real. And then all of a sudden you have an actual lead for a $40,000 surgery. So it's like worth it, right? It's like, we're not selling, uh, in this scenario. I mean, it's worth it in almost any scenario.

But in this scenario, we're talking about like big ticket items and that's where with out-of-home advertising. We, my counterpart and I, we came up with a sort of an attribution sliding scale because, because out of home can be measured in so many ways and all of those ways sound great, but not all of those ways are practical for everybody.

So we came up with a scale that really sort of mirrors what you just described there, and we call it low. Average commitment and high commitment. And those low commitment businesses might be a quick service restaurant, right? Burger joint. Um, it could be, you know, maybe, um, a fireworks stand around the 4th of July, right?

It's things, things where it's, Hey honey, let's just go check that out. I didn't need to think about it. I'm not committing too much financially. Time-wise we're just making a spur of the moment decision to go do that. For those types of businesses, I can tell you measurable foot traffic impacts your business from exposure to your outdoor campaign.

That's exciting. I'm going all the way to the high commitment side, right? A vehicle, a $40,000 surgery. There's going to be more steps involved. So to track foot traffic, there's a lot of things that can go wrong between me giving between me, seeing your advertising and me showing up at your place. Right.

Measure the impact or efficacy of an outdoor advertising campaign based on a whole lot of variables that we don't control is unfair. So then we say, all right, we're going to measure it with, you know, lifting or, uh, organic and direct traffic. We're going to monitor things like Google trends, maybe use some social listening tools, um, to see what people are saying about you, or if we're creating those conversations, because that's what we do.

Um, so, so it's cool to see we're all sort of up against types of challenges, right? They're all the same fundamental challenges. And how do we execute in the most effective and efficient way possible making the client the hero, right. Totally. That's it. And setting that expectation upfront of, Hey, you're a luxury car dealership.

I'm not measuring foot traffic. As much as you would love for process table from you and say, Hey, this is how we're going to do it because I know that dealers love the idea of foot traffic and being able to know someone saw my ad and then they showed up here and spent money with me. That would be unrealistic of me to tell you that's going to happen because they need to go to your website.

Your website needs to work. You need to have the car price accordingly. Uh, your BDC needs to not screw it up. Your, you know, uh, there's so many things that have to happen right along the way. How do you, so, so we, we talked there about the bots. How do you, how do you see voice as it sounds like sort of an undervalued place still, even though we're talking about voice, but it doesn't sound like it's being executed from an advertising marketing standpoint, which take,

uh, well, that's something we're still trying to figure out over here. And, uh, sorry, Tim. I got, I got a run through an appointment, this appointment, this conversation's been great. Um, but, um, so voice, the first take is like making, uh, right now the market seems to be open for making, taking the time to make skills.

And then I would advertise as skill. So staying on the car train, like if you were going to make a, uh, like a Subaru of bend, uh, sorry. Ben does a town I live in, if you're willing to make a, not a Subaru, um, a skill, but a Subaru of bend Alexis skill. And that skill is going to give you, um, mountain updates when you wanted them.

And, uh, for snow is what I mean for skiing. And, uh, whenever you wanted to talk about, um, a. Uh, scheduling an oil change. Uh, you can do that through the Subaru bend Alexa app, um, or any service and, uh, or you can ask, uh, what's the best deal for an Outback right now. So you do that and then you advertise the shit out of it through a whatever marketing.

You want a town, people to tap here to download the Subaru band Alexa app or, um, radio, or w I don't care, just however you get the voice out. And the thing is, is I, I believe that if you were to take that seriously, uh, you would end up getting a lot of attention just because it's so like what you made an Alexa skill.

And even if they don't do it, they'll be like, That's unique and people start talking about, did you see us? You grew up and they made an Alexa skill. Even if they don't download it there, you're just talking about you and that's being relevant. You want that to happen. So when you start making first mover advantage is you have those kinds of advantages before all of a sudden, every dealership in town hasn't happened.

That's how, yeah. What dealership doesn't have a voice app. That's how I get all my, uh, oil changes scheduled and whatnot. So I it's the first mover advantage. And then thinking like how you're going to end up doing that, how it's going to end up being a value. I think that could be your biggest value is like, you know, you're now able to change your oil by talking to Alexa and Amazon's put Alexa everywhere.

So easy as that. That's awesome. I think after this one, go build the out-of-home insider scale, but I want to leave you with this for me to you. The habit Heartstyles revolution. Every rule, every revolution has a flag, my friend, give them a flag and let them hold it and raise it and wave it for you. Spend a lot of fun, but if people want to find you where's the best spot, um, you know, probably LinkedIn, I mean, I'm active on Instagram.

My, my last name is unique. Uh, T O R C O M as in Mary. So I'm the only like bud torque them out there. So, um, yeah, if you find my Facebook and my Instagram and my LinkedIn is what I'm most active on. And then I have a website  dot com and you can see our podcasts, um, and all that fun stuff, um, which we do have a bunch that we're going to be jaw dropping.

Um, a lot of really fascinating conversations with people. Who've just built big empires, um, here, and they're all live. So you can watch them like YouTube if you want. Um, or you can listen to them. Um, and, but the, I would say the most important thing is that there are conversations. Get habit, hot sauce in your life.

Thanks for saying, join the revolution. Raise that flag. Like, can I have those probiotics? So man, that's right. Give me object on your life. And we pissed off at work. We Hayden in the comments and stuff and the haters show up in the comments changed your life forever. But thanks so much, man, but a lot of fun.