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July 24, 2020

Episode 040 - Special Edition Seller Panel

Episode 040 - Special Edition Seller Panel

Are you a professional sales person?

If so, this episode is for you!

Join three top performers from media sales as they share their biggest losses, biggest wins and what we can all learn from both.

Our panel members are ...

Daione Sanders, Director of Sales of Carvertise

Max Goldfield, National Account Director at New Tradition

Douglas Cordova, VP, Business Development at Wrapify (an Inc. 500 company)

As always, you can grab your own I ❤️ OOH Swag at oohswag.com and don't forget to use promo code INSIDER for 10% off your first order!

Support the show (http://oohswag.com)

Welcome to out-of-home insider. Today's a very special event. We've got three incredible folks from the out of home industry who are going to share tips, tricks, and insider insights on what it takes to truly be successful. We're going to talk about wins. We're going to talk about losses and we're going to talk about how you can apply the same lessons that we've all learned here.

To your business today to make the rest of 2020 super successful. And then launch a 2021 that is even more successful than this year. I'll introduce the guests here today. We've got Diana Sanders from Carver ties. We've got max Goldfield from new tradition. We've got Doug Cordova from rapid Raphi.

Everybody. Thanks for being. Thanks so much. I'm excited to jump right in, but to, to give folks an idea of who you are, we'll just go right down the line. Give us a little introduction about yourself and, and we'll just roll right into it. Diana, tell us a little bit about who you are and where. Hey everyone.

Diana Sanders, uh, director of sales with Carver ties based out of Texas, really happy to be on here and got into the out of home industry a little over a year ago. And it's been fantastic ever since. So, and for those who are curious how to pronounce my name quick hack for yet day on a beach day on a lake, wherever you're from, that's the best way to remember it.

We're all looking forward to a day on a beach. Max, tell us about. Hey guys. Uh, yeah, so I'm a senior sales director at tradition media. Uh, we're based out of New York city. Uh, and so home specifically, uh, we sell largely tacklers, uh, the best of the best larger than life, super premium out of home. Uh, so I'm very excited to be here, uh, you know, being an industry for, uh, over a decade, um, looking forward to this.

Awesome. And my co-host for today, you've met him before Doug Cordova. Doug. Thanks for being. Thanks for having me again, uh, Doug Cordova, VP of business development, or Raphi coming from Queens, New York, and we're headquartered out of San Diego and just looking forward to this panel today. Awesome. Well, Doug, I'm going to kick it off with you because you, you brought this idea to the show.

I love the concept, does a great opportunity to give some folks in the industry, a platform to share a little bit about, you know, what we all have in common and that's that we all win and we all lose. Talk to me about, you know, the idea that, you know, how, how did this come as an idea to you? And why did you think it'd be so valuable?

I think because we see one-offs all the time about. All of these wins, all these happy things. And, you know, because a lot of that's on social media, whether it be a LinkedIn or anecdotal stories, you get like a tidbit, you don't really get any back end or front end, and you kind of trying to figure out what happened and what transpired, how that can relate to you.

And so I was thinking if I was watching a podcast or listening to a podcast, I'd want to understand, you know, what people really went through from the beginning, middle to the end and how that journey worked in obstinate, condensed fashion. And then from the losses, I think that's even more relevant because.

Obviously everything we see on social media is good. No one really posts the bed. So to understand, you know, how we bounce back or that also is so relatable because so much of us go through the same thing all the time, no matter what level we're on, no matter what type of company or industry we're selling in.

And I thought it'd be fun just to get, you know, the three personalities on to talk about what we do, what we've had success happen to us and what we've had some fun. Absolutely. So, you know what, rather than start with the fluffy stuff, the winds are the easy thing to talk about. Deanna, tell me about, uh, tell me about a loss.

Tell me about a setback, whether it's COVID something else in your career. What's a loss that's really stood out as a lesson for you in your. Yeah. So I'll definitely give an example of kind of like a personal fail if you will. Um, so, you know, we have like a new rollout that we, um, or launching. I had somebody specific in mind that I wanted to take it to, um, send it over to them.

Ton of excitement. And so you get on the call and we're all passionate about what we do, right. We all love what we're doing. So there's just this contagious excitement and there's a buildup and yeah, we'll do this and that and that, not miss. And there, here we go. Rapid fire, hang up the call. Um, and they kind of take assessment of like what I just did.

And I had this feeling that like, did I over promise on something? I wouldn't be able to deliver on. So then you're kind of get into a cycle of trying to shove things through. It gets messy. You're asking other people to like put you higher. I'm a top priority. And at the end of the day, that is kind of what happened is I had to go back on my word and say, Hey, you know, I got emotional in it.

Um, you know, passion is one thing, but when you get emotional and you over promise on things that you, at the end of the day, can't deliver on. And not only hurts you and your reputation, but also the industry as a whole, because that's, you know, the that's, the perception is reality thing. That's the impression that you're giving people.

So I think it's always important, you know, to always stay passionate, but make sure you check your emotions throughout the sales process. And, and if anything, what we want to do is under promise and over-deliver and have people think, wow, Right. Wasn't expecting all of this, but when we over promise and get emotional in that sales cycle, which is very easy and all of us have fallen victim to at some point or the other that can really be detrimental and more than just that one isolated event.

Absolutely. And I think that that is one of the pitfalls of, you know, being in sales is sometimes controlling those emotions. And maybe if we haven't had a win recently, or we know that it would be a great fit for a client, how did they respond when you went back and said, Hey, I screwed. Yeah. I mean, it's definitely like just, you know, feelings of frustration.

And I think at the end of the day, you've always got to tell him, like, I really value the business value of the partnership and the opportunity to work with you. And, you know, here's what I'm going to do to make that up. Um, but that's never a conversation you want to have and those tough conversations, um, you know, we all have to have, and we've got to take ownership and accept those facts.

But I think, you know, as long as you stand up and say, Hey, I made a mistake and, you know, take on some of that responsible. And just prove to them throughout the rest of the partnership you have, they really do value them. Um, you know, some things are salvageable, definitely. Max, how do you, how do you feel about taking ownership in those times that, that maybe something got screwed up it maybe wasn't your fault.

Maybe it was. What do you think about that? Self-accountability. Yeah. I mean, it's something we all have to do. Uh, it's, it's a part of, uh, any sales job, I think, uh, I've certainly been in that position and, you know, it's one of those where, uh, you know, once when you're in the thick of it, uh, and, uh, and, and you know, what you have to do, it's just a matter of, kind of, you know, laying everything.

Compartmentalizing it, um, you know, just, just understanding how you have to get your point across. Um, but I mean, it's just, it's something that you just have to do. So, um, you know, whether you call it, pulling the bandaid or, you know, whatever the case may be, you have to, you know, you have to get out there.

Um, you have to get ahead of it and you have to own it. Um, and then you have to figure out solutions on how. To get past it and, um, ultimately have, you know, the client feel good about the overall situation. So you always have to find a solution in the end, uh, to, you know, so that, so does. I think that's an important concept to, to really wrap our heads around is compartmentalization.

You know, the emotion is one piece. Maybe there's something that's salvageable, maybe a piece went completely. Right. And really understanding that, Hey, the whole thing's not messed up a piece, got messed up or maybe the whole thing is messed up. And how do I remove the pieces so that I can put it all back together.

Max? What's that time that you, that you just, you just failed. What's the, what's your. Last story. Yeah. So, uh, you know, uh, there's so many to choose from, uh, uh, now, um, you know, one that really sticks out in my career, uh, several years ago. Um, after a long day at work and we work in a very close knit, uh, industry where you forge friendships, right?

So like your clients become your friends. Uh, and, uh, after a long day, uh, I found out that I didn't make a buy, uh, went to an industry event. Uh, so, you know, at this injury industry event, I ended up seeing one of the buyers, uh, Walked up to him and pulled him to the side. Uh, we started talking about, you know, why didn't they make us buy?

It turned out, it turned into a bigger thing, got a little aggressive at each other. Uh, but it's, it's one of those where, you know, my frustration got the best of me and I wish it hadn't happened. You know, I wish I was able to take a step back and be like, you know what, you'll get the next one. Uh, and unfortunately, you know, things have, haven't been the same, uh, with this person.

You know, regardless of whether or not we, we did speak afterwards. Uh, and we, you know, we hashed it out and we're all good, but it's not the same, you know what I'm saying? So like, where are we? We're friends. Uh, it's just not the same anymore. So, you know, if I had to do do it all over again, I definitely wouldn't have, uh, Don that number one at the happy hour.

Cause that's not the place, you know, for a business conversation like that. Um, but number two, I just, you know, I would have gone about it a completely different way. So I definitely, you know, I definitely learned, uh, sorry about that. Uh, definitely learned my, uh, my lesson on that one and, you know, I, I truly believe like every loss, every disappointment, every failure is an opportunity, uh, to learn and grow and get that.

Uh, so, you know, that's one where it truly sticks out. And I feel like I've gotten better from that today. For sure. And out of home is such a unique industry, at least in my limited time in it, because you do, you forge friendships with people and there's so many moving things and there's emotion tied to this.

We have families that we need to provide for Doug. What do you think about that fine line between friendships and professional relationships? It's timely. Um, actually, uh, I think it's very difficult. I think you spend a lot of time with people in the industry, you know, Maxim similar I'm 11 years in, uh, I spent a lot of time with people, whether it be happy.

I was at the beach traveling with Geopack conventions or whatever the case may be. You see the same people, same thesis all the time, and you get to know them, you get their phone numbers, your texts with them. You go lunch, you go to lunches and dinners with them. Happy hours. Um, but everyone has a role like buyers.

They have, uh, they have to buy for their clients. They have to do what's right. We have to sell our product and get that, that across as well. And sometimes those lines cross. Sometimes you have to go around the front because it's more important to get the Biden. Sometimes you have to just accept the fact that even though they are friendly with you and they tell you they love your product and everything, that just didn't make sense at this time.

And I think a true friendship is going to be able to sustain that, understanding that you can't always work. And it's not always going to be a good fit. Uh, so building that true friendship is great because again, we spend more time with people who work with, in our family sometimes. Um, but you have to understand that and you have to draw that line.

Definitely. And that's kind of segues into, into my last story. And then Doug, I'd love to hear yours. I was about a year and a half into my agency career and had a, a big, big client. They made up probably a third of my billing and was friendly with everybody on the client side, you know, from the, the ownership of the, of the company down to the, the salespeople working there.

And they called me in one day and said, ah, this was a week before Easter, two weeks before my son's birthday. Tim we're going a different direction. Uh, we're going to be changing agencies. And that, that, I mean, just an incredible setback to lose a third of your billing like that. And, uh, and it was, it was humbling because I hadn't, I'd lost clients at that point, but I hadn't lost, I hadn't lost that big of a client.

I hadn't lost, you know, so much of my business that I'm trying to do the math on. How am I, how am I going to rebuild this and get back to the same level that, um, It's a long sales cycle, right. What we do takes a lot of time and opening doors and all that stuff. So how am I going to get back there? And I just, I handled it.

I handled it like a like professional would and, uh, ended up getting a job offer from the. On the backend of that, maybe that doesn't happen if I handle it differently, but, uh, it was a huge setback setback financially that actually parlayed into a great opportunity and ultimately, uh, led me into the out of home industry.

So I'm forever grateful for that loss. So what's a time that you love. So Mike Tyson has a famous line. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. So I came into this position in rap, fly back in November and spent a lot of time, obviously, you know, being in the industry. You know, clientele and contacts, you know, reaching out, teaching them, you know what we're doing now, what we're doing here, what we're focusing on building momentum, because it takes time.

You're starting with a clean slate, no matter who, you know, no matter how long you've known them, when you move companies, it's clean slate, it's clean building all over again. And that takes time. So you're building, you're building, you're building, we got a big win and there was a lot of momentum going into that.

And then. And then my whole funnel, my whole pipeline, everything that I just spent four months like blood, sweat, and tears. I mean, long days, a ton of traveling, you know, being away from my family was just wiped out and listen, I've had losses before I've had clients that I knew were going to close, and then it didn't, for some reason that you rebound it happens, this was just building everything up to something and then having it wiped out again and not being able to do my typical.

Rebound processes, which is get back on the road, get back in front of people, get back to meetings that all changed. So not only did I get punched in the face and I didn't really have an idea how to get back up. And so I really kind of sat back and I, I, I talked to people that I had confided in throughout my career.

People that I respect in the industry and they're like, listen, Get on, get your face out there, whether it be LinkedIn, whether it be zoom, book, those meetings, again, start having those conversations, you know, where value lies, you know, you know how you can help and just start, you know, slowly picking up.

And it has definitely not the extent it was. That was that that was a hit I've never taken in my career, whether it be in the industry I'm in now, which has been 11 years or whether it be, you know, the seven, eight years before that, when I was doing something else. And so that was by far the most difficult hit I've ever taken.

So I think that if we can summarize the, the loss ID. It's here. Here's four folks and, and there's millions of more sellers of all different types of things. Just like us that have all suffered incredible setbacks, professional relationships, fractured personal friendships, fractured losses financially.

But there's one thing that everybody here has in common and that's that we just kept running towards the gunfire. We just stayed in the fight and how important it is. Just to hear it, you know, it's my Dory line that I always come back to, to just keep swimming. You know, when, when those things get taken away, your fallback plans get taken away, activity, activity, activity, whatever that is, as long as we're moving forward.

So, so valuable, Deanna. Yeah. Let's bring the mood up a little bit. We've been talking a lot about losses. Talk to me about that. So the example I'll give, and it does end up a wind, but it's got a lot of like tricky things that kind of went into play. Um, you know, max and dog talked earlier, sometimes things are just like out of your control that go wrong through the sales process.

Um, but to give you a backstory, uh, it was a home service client, uh, 24 karat gold prospect. So, you know, took a while to get in with them. Um, then you've got to go through the whole sales process and meeting with them. So long story short, we got to the point. All right. They were going to give us a trial campaign.

Right? So we were an element to a greater marketing initiative that they were launching, but we got a launch with them. So we've, they're giving us a shot here. We've got to make everything roll out. Great. We've got to knock it out of the park. We've got to make this a huge success because if we do huge potential, so we, you know, we get the contract signed, we get the dates set in the states really.

Again, to the overall marketing strategy that they're launching. So we started going through production through launch, and this is where everything that goes wrong could before we even have things going. Right. So a huge snow storm that comes through the market. We were Virginia was in the Northeast wrap shops are closed, shipping's delayed.

We can't get drivers, no installations happening. Right. And so this is all behind the curtain and the client doesn't know what's going on. Well, we've got a date that's very critical and very important that is looming. And it's looking like we're not going to be able to hit that. And I think max said earlier, it's so important sometimes just to get out in front of things, right?

So you've got two different aspects. You can be reactive or you can be proactive and reactive is crossing your fingers, hoping for the best. But if things don't happen, you've got to call that client up and you're the bad guy, right. Or you'd be reactive. And you have that tough conversation and say, Hey.

You know, there are elements out of our control. There are things we could have done better, but this is the situation. And so you pick up that phone and you fully expect them to pull the contract because we're not able to be in line. And you know, this is where I think being proactive and being transparent really will help you because at the end of the day, it ended up saving this whole thing.

So, you know, by picking up that phone, I earned their respect. They were, you know, they appreciated the fact that I was transparent and I got ahead of things and we were able to shift and just adjust things so that at the end of the day, it work out long story, short, great campaign. They ended up extending with us, but that was a really pivotal moment and a key learning lesson for me as well as for anybody that when it's, it's tricky to do that, you've got like a gut feeling.

You feel icky. You don't want to be that bad guy. You want to wish for the best. We've got to just get out ahead of things because when we use that word partner, So many of us in the industry use, but if we don't follow it up with our actions, you know, then we're just setting yourself up for a long-term basis.

Absolutely. And I, I do, I, I, I think that the word partner is, is a good word. Sometimes it gets watered down a little bit because it's a little bit buzzwordy, but partnership means that it's, it's, it's a, it's a being in a relationship. You know, having a, you know, a significant other, and Hey, we're going to talk about something that's going to make you uncomfortable, but we're going to be better for it.

And that trust is so important, especially when we're talking about business, business, relationship, lots and lots of money. And ultimately your client's success contingent on you doing the right thing. I think that's a great story and a lesson that, you know, really we can all apply, lean into it. If it's uncomfortable, it's probably something that needs to get done.

Oh, here, I'll say one more thing. Quote or no, I don't know. Mantra, if you will, that I've always taken to heart through business is, you know, your client's success is your success. You're not going to grow long-term unless your clients grow, they're not going to be, you're not going to be successful unless they're successful, you know, in this industry, your reputation.

So much, it is like a small industry. We know everybody we interact. And so that's, that's so, so critically important that you always want to put their success. Um, and don't treat them like a commodity, really do treat them like a partner. Amen. Amen. There's real people that are, you know, contingent on you doing the right thing.

There are people whose livelihoods are impacted by you doing the right thing. On the client side. They have employees who need to provide for their friends, you know, for their families. And if you don't take that level of ownership, Then you could be impacting a lot of people on the way Zig Ziglar, R I P Zig the man himself.

He said, you can have everything in life that you want. If you just help enough people get what they want. Max, what's a window. Yeah. So, uh, I think big winds go deeper than just a big contract. Uh, you know, they, for me, big wins within a contract are ones that I think make a difference. Uh, you know, whether it's socially, you know, whatever the case may be.

So just, just making a difference, uh, in some way. Um, so, you know, most recently during this pandemic, and this is kind of a two-part, uh, when, uh, so, uh, most recently during the pandemic, uh, I was, I was RFP, uh, and right off the bat, I knew I was just, just real quick for any, for any seller that's outside of, out of home, who's listening to it.

What is that? Oh, uh, so, uh, it's a request for proposal. So, uh, my agency partner, uh, you know, they'll send us a request and then it'll have, uh, you know, the target markets, uh, the demographics they're looking to reach, uh, you know, whether it's digital, whether it's static, it just has all the components to what the client is looking for.

Uh, so, so essentially, you know, once you've received that, uh, then you, you know, you go through your inventory avails and you try and figure it out. What you have available, what makes most sense and what, what, what would be, what would make most sense within this, uh, within this plan? Uh, so, so I was arcade, uh, and you know, after reading this RFP, I knew right off the bat that, uh, you know, Uh, follow-up phone call and really selling this through.

There's not a chance, like some, you know, some, you know, it just, you know, your, your inventory fits perfectly what you have to offer. Uh, you know, whether it's at home or, you know, any other industry you'll know right off the bat. Oh, this is perfect right off the bat. Just based on what they were asking for.

I didn't know if it was. Simply based on budget. Um, so, so this is one where I had to follow it up. Uh, I made a call, I set up a meeting, uh, you know, and, and really, really sold it through, uh, really talking about the benefits of, of the plan that I was putting forth. Uh, so ultimately, uh, my contact at the agency.

Got back to me. And he said, you know, this is the clients really liking this. Uh, this would not have happened. Had we not set up that call with the client? Uh, so that's number one, amazing there. Uh, but number two, uh, this is in the thick of the pandemic. Uh, so my company really needed this, you know, every company.

Sales right now. Uh, so, you know, for me to, to go above and beyond, that's really sales 1 0 1, you know, you follow up, you sell it through. Um, but you know, this is, this is one where, you know, some, sometimes it just doesn't happen sometimes. Uh, you know, there there's such a quick turnaround and you don't have that opportunity to sell it through.

Um, so I'm really just, you know, very, uh, thankful and glad that I was able to do that. Number one for my company, because we really needed that. Um, but number two, the message. Uh, so when we talk about making a difference, uh, the message is, is what really gets me excited about this, uh, this program that we're running.

Um, so it's, uh, it's on the largest digital in the country, uh, NASA centerpiece within the overall plan that we're talking about. Um, but the message is, uh, help us feed California. One case equals $1 donation. And it helps feed, uh, you know, it's benefiting the world central kitchen. Uh, so, you know, as far as like, you know, selling it through great, I, you know, I made a sale, but it helped my company and it also is feeding people and that's ultimately what makes me feel good about this and what makes it a big win for me?

I think that's, that's definitely, that's a great win and, and good on you, right? Because it's, it's the uncomfortable work. It's, you know what Diana just shared about your leaning in and, and really. Going someplace that most folks may not be comfortable going. You had a higher purpose for doing that in serving the community, but also in, in serving your team and the company.

And I think that that's a great lesson for all of us. Doug, how about you?

So I'm not going to count the tick tock video that got over 300,000 views, not as my major win, but now one thing I, as salespeople, no matter what level we're on, no matter where we are is proving our worth. Right. Proving our value. You could have a sales person then. You know, it brings in a ton of revenue, but you had that revenue come in, is that reactive revenues that proactive ever.

So I've always take it upon myself to be that proactive person. It's why God's business development, the first place. It's what I like doing. Is it harder? Yes. Longer? Yes. Do you make as much money all the time? No, but, uh, several years back I was working at a major company. I happened to be promoted, uh, three months into my role.

And one of my major roles in that company was to get revenue from clients who weren't spending. Uh, for those who are not familiar, you know, without a home structure, as a whole, most of the times the revenue comes from the at-home agencies. So a lot of times you have these client conversations, but then the client reach it back to AIG.

And as max said, they are fee and that's how the revenue comes in. So my goal was to reach out to these. Well, we weren't getting any revenue from, and one specific instance, we had the client come in, we pitched to them, our, our capabilities. And they said to us, we actually just ran a New York campaign. You weren't even on the RFP, which means my company wasn't even an option for that client to buy.

Okay. Well, good. Well, let's not let that happen the next time. So I keep in contact with this client and they're coming up to their major year big event and I get a call from the client. They said, Hey, I'm looking at the RFP. You're still not on it. So meaning the agency still didn't put my company on the RFP.

She said, I'm going to fix this calls back the NC. And I worked closely with the rep at the company who handled me and she, and I said, listen, just a heads up. This is going to happen. And they're like, not a problem. We got to do what's best for our company. So they choose like, okay, we'll put that. The client then calls back again a couple a week later, it says, Hey, there's not enough of this company on the RFP long story short, we got the majority of the buy in from a situation where we were never on the plan to begin with.

So I was able to then show to my CEO at the time. We were not even on the plane, we, there was no existing of us even being there. So if it wasn't for this meaning, if it wasn't for this reach out, if it wasn't for having an opportunity to present our capabilities, what we do and why we should be utilized, we wouldn't have been bought.

And we wouldn't even have known. We wouldn't have. So, you know, proving your worth is never fun. You know, you want to think that people believe in you no matter what, but it's something we have to do. It's something we shoulder as a daily. And you know, I was already a director of business development at that point, but still, I mean, as VP of business development do the same thing, you're proving your worth, making sure that your company understands the work you're putting in and how that drives results.

And so that was a pretty impactful win cause it was early in my new role and it really was able to show, you know, the confidence I had in myself and the confidence I had in whatever. I think that that's a, that's a great, it's a great point about it's. I think that the theme of this entire conversation is really doing that uncomfortable work.

And we could just sit back and let status quo be the status quo. But the reason that we're in the roles that we're in is to do that. There's a reason that top performers are consistently top performers. They're able to be authentic. They're able to do the uncomfortable work and they know if I've done everything right.

I can surrender the outcome and it's, you know, I'm gonna win more dates than I'm going to lose. And if I can count those small wins, and if I can learn from the losses, then I can continue to grow. Yeah, this is a, a, this is a segment. That's been a part of the show, but I'd be curious to hear each of your answers here down.

Where do you go for meditation, inspiration, education you a podcast, or do you, do you read books? Where, where do you go to. Yeah. So, um, I'll say, I, I really, wasn't a podcast person slash aren't a podcast person except for you. I think you've, you've ever suddenly found it really loved it. If you haven't heard it, go listen to it, but shameless plug there.

Um, but you know, what, what I've been doing, we've been doing like monthly book clubs, uh, since the pandemic started and, and that's ranged from everything from power positive thinking to right now, we're in the middle of purple cow. Um, and so, you know, you had mentioned exemplar and I'm sitting here looking at.

The closing the sale right here on my desk. So reading is something I had kind of gotten away from, but, you know, it's just, I've had the time to do it and I've gone back to it. And I realized, you know, just how great it is. It kind of hits a lot of the things it's relaxing. Um, you know, you're learning through it.

So it kind of hits a lot of those sort of therapeutic checkpoints that we might all be needing right now during these times, absolutely empowered, positive thinking. Great book know, Ray Lewis is a big fan of that. I'm a big fan of it. Purple cow, Seth Goden, all the good stuff, max. Um, I mean, my happy place right now, uh, is doing work at my house.

Honestly, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm doing, I'm getting a lot of stuff done. Uh, you know, I, for the most part, I'm doing it, uh, by myself, uh, you know, whether it's landscaping, putting up a fence, uh, you know, just I'm finishing my basement. Like a lot of the stuff I'm just doing by myself, putting down pavers. And it's like, it's my kind of alone time away from the craziness.

Um, because you know, being. Being at home all the time. It's definitely been different, you know, with, with the family and, and, and everyone being around us all the time, as opposed to being at the office. Uh, so, you know, I, I, I like to get away and kind of do my meditation, uh, you know, doing some, some work, uh, construct.

Yeah, it's, it's, it's super productive. And, and again, for, for anybody listening to this, that's outside of the industry. And of course, for anybody inside of it, there's these very, very common themes, right? We're able to measure the wins. We're able to measure the losses we learn from both. And we're constantly self-improving with the activity.

Doesn't stop. We're not resting on our laurels. We're not resting on that when we're not defeated by the loss. Doug, how about you? Podcasts guide books. What, what, where do you go? So, uh, boys podcasts when I was commuting to the city, but kind of pulled off a little sense. I do read, I read, um, ego is the enemy, which was really good.

Um, I read the. After yourself series, which is really good. Uh, so I do read, but actually I, I gained a lot by doing for others as, as corny as that sounds, I apologize, but I've mentored a couple of people who are younger, who were trying to, you know, get their footing and get their ground in. I'd love to connect.

So I spend a portion of every week reaching out to people and putting them in contact with the right people to help them further their careers. And that's not just an advertising. I've done that in real estate. I've done that in finance, you know, wherever I can help and connect people. And that's kind of cathartic to me because if I know that I put someone in contact with someone else that's going to help their career, you know, it just, it does, it does a lot for me.

And that's kinda my. Zen in my, in my happy places, if you can call it that, you know? So, uh, that, that would be mine. Well, absolutely. And Doug, unbeknownst to you, this episode is going to come out tomorrow, inspired by yourself with pay it for Friday. As you've gotten to this point in the episode, we recorded this just yesterday.

And, uh, so this is part of the pay it forward Friday as inspired by Doug Cordova, Doug, as someone who just endlessly pours into others. So, Doug, thanks for helping me out with this man. And, uh, anything you want to add before. No, I just want to add, you know, if you have an opportunity to help someone do it, you'd be surprised how good it's going to make you feel and that's about it.