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June 1, 2020

OOH Insider - Episode 030 - Josh Cohen, CEO of Pearl Media

OOH Insider - Episode 030 - Josh Cohen, CEO of Pearl Media

When it comes to outdoor advertising signage, there are lots of options. 

From a breathtaking wallscape to finding creative uses for building projections, Pearl Media has seen or done it and when Pearl Media does anything, it contains these three ingredients:


But Pearl Media doesn't just work with anyone. They are intentional about protecting their brand and the brands that they work with.

They're known for taking unloved spaces and turning them into art and are the "farm to table" of Out of Home advertising.

Pearl Media doesn't just handle big city executions though, they've built a process for making hyperlocal super scalable.

Check out Pearl Media's work on the Insta: https://www.instagram.com/pearlmedia/

Connect with Josh Cohen on LinkedIn at: https://www.linkedin.com/in/josh-cohen-b749304/

And their website has a bunch of great stuff too: https://pearlmedia.com/

Follow us on Instagram for more great content: https://www.instagram.com/oohinsider/

And grab some sweet I ❤️ OOH swag of your own at www.oohswag.com

Support the show (http://oohswag.com)

Can we go into the out of home insider show? Today's guest started Pearl media on the precipice of the 2008 financial collapse because he saw a gaping hole between branding and engagement. He's successfully since bridge that gap through a combination of technology and people and the commitment to being big, bold, and icon.

Pro media doesn't just work with anyone though. And their mantra to challenge the status quo is also one of their core business principles. Josh Cohen, welcome to the out-of-home insider show. Thanks for having me hell of an introduction. If I may say thank you so much, so glad that I was able to deliver it there on, uh, on take two of which most folks will never see take one, but that's all right.

The small bit of editing that the show does undergo. You started pro media in 2007, you had no idea what was going to happen in 2008, a lot of people are drawing correlations to what we're going through right now. Tell us a little bit about what it was like getting started and then ultimately facing 2008 and how you're using that now with.

Yeah, it's listen. Um, there are some correlations, but there are tremendous differences because behaviors in this crisis as much different than behavior was back then. Um, you know, obviously in 2008 we had a financial crisis and a really big real estate crisis, and we kind of saw there was a. You know, getting involved in, into the out of home business is usually a very, not usually as it could be extremely capital intensive, um, and doing this pretty much on my own when I started, um, you know, having the, uh, you know, capital was not a resource that we just had.

Uh, I, I had, uh, a tremendous amount of, so, uh, introduced a medium where we would take vacant retail. And use that as a platform to connect with consumers in major urban markets. And it serves multiple purposes because we were providing a resource to a lot of landlords and real estate owners who like now are struggling because retail is empty.

Right. No, uh, commerce whatsoever, uh, going on and we were providing a gap poll to, you know, allow people to continue to keep lights on and pay rents and, and what have you. And, you know, I've always loved at home in my previous life before at a home, I was in sports and media, um, and dabbled a little bit in, out of home.

And I always loved the, um, the fact of being big, bold, as you mentioned, um, But the one thing about out of home back in 2008, that I thought was missing was a little bit more of the, in your face consumer engagement and what the storefront medium, where we started allowed us to do is to take the billboard from the sky, bring it to the street level and really connect with consumers.

And one-on-one especially in major urban markets. Right? If you think about where at-home was in the mid two thousands, where we were still, you know, Big boards up in the sky. Um, and now that still exists, but the ability now to introduce technology and to bring it into the street level, like we did it allowed brands to not only get a face-to-face with consumers, but also to be extremely targeted.

Um, and I learned lessons real early on about at-home that, you know, number one size doesn't always matter. Location is key. Um, creative is extremely important and. At that time that we had to be extremely creative and be extremely nimble. Um, and the storefronts not only became a great branding platform.

Became a great creative canvas and an opportunity for brands to introduce different technologies, to connect with consumers. And you saw as the storefront business evolved, you know, one of the first, uh, evolutions we did was, you know, rear projection technology and a storefront window, um, which now seems like, you know, a black and white tube TV.

Uh, but back then it was revolutionary. You know, we did, we did something for John verbatim, so we literally. Just had a rear projection system in the window that was running over a 32nd spot, surrounded by some static, uh, uh, um, vinyl. And then we had these. Sound drivers behind the window that also produce sounds.

So when you're up there, you could only really hear the commercial as well. And, uh, at the time, you know, digital was literally just starting in out-of-home and this, this became something that was, uh, looked just to be, um, you know, cutting edge, cutting through the clutter. You know, it got people to turn into.

Um, and became extremely engaging. And from there it turned into, you know, uh, introducing different technologies in different engagements. And of course we started getting into some, a lot more traditional out of home, but doing it, I think a little bit different than others and how we continue to grow.

But to answer. The other part of your question is we're seeing, um, advertisers, behaviors and conversations, similar to what we had back in 2008, where you know, the conversation now is more about, you know, the consumer and where they live, work and play. Um, you know, not so much, you know, the way that we're seeing it is a way that we're envisioning it is that consumers are gonna spend a tremendous amount of time in their, what we're calling their little radius.

Right. You know, if you live in a certain area of Manhattan, you're probably going to stay within that area. Manhattan, you know, I live in New Jersey, you know, we're not traveling too far. So I think brands can be extremely effective if they tell her they're creative to being to that local customer and that local consumer and that medium plays a huge role in being able to deliver that, that, that customer, um, based to.

Two clients, especially on the local level, which I think unfortunately, and fortunately for us is where I think this business is going to be for the next couple of months. What challenges do you see? Like, and cause I totally agree. I think that that's clearly the opportunity is the hyper local thing that, that we're all talking about, but something that you've been talking about for a long time, how scalable or how efficient can it be for a brand to be able to buy.

Lots of little small markets and get placement like that. Is it, is it even feasible? Is it achievable at scale for an enterprise brand or is it so for us, this, the storefront business again, it's it's uh, right now, I mean, before the COVID thing was probably, you know, 20% of our business, right? It's still a good business and a healthy business, but you know, our focus has been on, you know, expanding into big, uh, bigger opportunities, digital transit venues, which we'll get into, but.

If we're talking specifically about that medium, um, it's very feasible. I mean, we've done work in the most random markets, um, and you'll be surprised, uh, you know, when we put a phone call into, uh, you know, uh, I'm trying to think of, uh, you know, uh, Blocksi Mississippi to a landlord and we're saying, Hey, we have a couple thousand dollars for someone who wants to put some vinyl up on your window.

They're like, when can we start? And how long can we keep this. You know, it's, you know, for them, it's, it's, it's tremendous and, and helping out some of the smaller markets with great brands, um, it goes a long way. And I think that it actually makes, uh, I would say at times it makes even a bigger impact. We have a dedicated real estate team that focuses just on that.

So we can, uh, acquire locations pretty quickly. Um, we don't keep an inventory of, uh, you know, anything pretty much outside of the top 10, but if you want to be in. Uh, you know, in Indianapolis or something like that, we've been able and are successfully able to source locations probably in 48 to 72 hours.

So it sounds like it's probably, it's important to work with somebody that's already familiar with doing. It's not that it's hard to do. It's just, somebody needs to know how to navigate those waters and get it done quickly. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, listen, there's been over the last 12, 13 years has been quite a few companies.

Who've tried to enter into the space or we're in this space. I would say it sounds easy. It sounds easy. I call, I call up the grocery store and say, Hey, can I put some stuff in your window for a week? Yeah. It's that it's telling you, there is a tremendous amount of backend and headaches that go through it, especially dealing in some of these major.

Um, with some, uh, particular landlords and, you know, getting access to the space, getting measurements to the right creative, uh, is there a tenant? Is there not a tenant, uh, you know, securing those leases, making sure they hold. Um, and then constantly making sure those leases are still available that inventory's available.

You know, we have. Probably about 150 to 200 locations in our inventory at any one time. And making sure that work saying the communication with those landlords, um, is a process. It's something that we've become very good at. Um, it's not, it's not a perfect process. It is a fluid medium. And I think one of the keys that reason why we have been successful in that area of our business is that we have stressed and what we've learned a lot of lessons early on, but community.

Communication, not just on the landlord side, but to the cloud, our clients or advertisers and agencies understanding is this medium, how to buy them, um, communicating to them, you know, when stuff is available, when we can guarantee certain inventory, those sorts of stuff, and knowing that we need to have some flexibility on both sides.

What are your best maybe known pieces of inventory is Chelsea market. How do you, how do you see the long-term impacts of social distancing on a place like Chelsea market or maybe some other areas? Do you think that it impacts long-term um, how we use space or is there an opportunity there? What's your take.

I mean, and that's a great segue, you know, over the last four years, we've kind of built out what we call this urban venue business, where we work with major landlords and top tier markets in what we in. What we consider an urban market. It's a, uh, it's a multi-use multi-faceted real estate development that usually has a nice office.

Tenant base has a great retail. There's usually some entertainment value as well. There's dining opportunities. Um, and that's where the places like Chelsea market. We also have. A great relationship with the folks at Brookfield and do stuff like Brookfield place and a lot of those other venues. Um, and are, you know, one of the reasons we wanted to get into those, those areas was, is number one is, you know, we, we want it to really focus on digital and being able to deliver a digital product, but we also wanted to be able to deliver audiences and those places are.

Really provide great information on those types of audiences and then deliver those audiences to relevant consumers. So if you look at a place like Chelsea market Chelsea market, which is now owned by Google, um, you know, the headquarters upstairs. So as YouTube. Tech savvy building. It's a millennial. It does skew a little bit more female than male, very fashion forward, you know, hip trendy area in the meat packing.

And then they have great food options. Right? The entire ground hall is a city block wide city block, long food hall where, you know, we're getting, you know, anywhere from 32 to 38,000 people a day walking through there. Um, now how is that going to look post COVID? I think it's going to obviously change. Um, but you know, There is still going to be a base in a neighborhood.

There's still a place where people can get food. I know that there are, these places are taking the proper measurements in order to protect consumers and provide them with the comfort. Um, but I do think it's going to, we're going to see. Change in numbers and changing how people use these facilities, um, and, um, would be lying to you.

If I said there wasn't some concern in our standpoint, but I do think that getting back to that whole neighborhood feel, you know, people who work, live and play in that area are still going to go to Chelsea market to get to go to the meat guy or to go to the. Three guy to get their, um, you know, their falafels, that sort of stuff.

There's only so much home cooking that any of us can eat. I have right. Part of my own cooking. It's unbelievable. I ventured to my office the other day and I'm big trying to get in a couple of days. And I literally walked down the street just because I wanted somebody else to give me food. Right. I'm so sick of the options at my house.

It's unbelievable. I mean, and trust me, my, my wife's Italian. She's a fairly decent cook. Uh, but it's, it's it's enough already. Um, and listen, we're all tired of it for good leftovers. We should do a leftover exchange and, you know, got, um, somewhere in the middle. Um, but yes, I think that. Behavior is going to change offices.

The way that people come are going to change, we're taking them. Listen, we can sit here and all get really depressed about the situation and that, you know, um, being sequestered in your home is, is really challenging in an at-home market. And there's no doubt about it. Anyone who thinks otherwise is out of their mind.

I think for us as an industry, we really need to focus on how we can supply the Mo. The greatest, um, metrics and data to our, our clients. So they can understand when people are coming back, how they're coming back. And I think we need to use that this year to do it. Um, this year for everybody is about getting through the year and surviving.

Um, and we have a great plan to do that. Um, and I really do believe if we, if we could set this date May 21st, 2021 for you and I to talk, I do think that we will be very close back to. I honestly believe that. And I, I told my, my, my employees, I said, we are striving to our goal is to get to May 1st, 2021.

And I do believe that we will be back. We're seeing it happen a lot quicker than we thought. Um, and unfortunately living in the Northeast, I think New York is going to be one of the last ones and for the right reasons and for us all to do well, we need commerce. We need transit. We need people traveling.

We need people commuting. And I do believe that's going to have. Um, things are definitely going to change. Human behavior will change forever from this. Um, and it's how we capitalize that, but we should really be focusing on metrics at this point and how we can all build in the right systems. And we've been spending a lot of time internally on developing the right systems and we come out of this so that we can supply the right data to our customers on how people are using places like Chelsea market, Brookfield place, the Salesforce transit center in San Francisco.

And some of the other things that are. Right. I'm just making a note here is. Really the world needs out of home to survive Rick Robinson, Rick Robinson, and I, that's a weird all tongue twister there. Rick Robinson and I were talking about a few weeks ago, how we're going to have this moment where everyone is out of the home together and out of home.

The opportunity to celebrate that welcome people back into the world. It's really going to be this collective experience, which, which is going to be, I think, pretty important and pretty powerful opportunity. So we need out of home to survive. It's great to hear that you have a leadership plan and I'm making a note for a 5 21 21.

We're just gonna put it on the calendar right now. Right after this at 5 21 21 kind of does it kind of has maybe it'll be some sort of epic summit and we can do this as like a fireside. That'd be great. That would be cool. We'll sit in the middle of Midtown Manhattan and do it. That's right. And we'll talk about what was once and, uh, what is now.

So I'm in, let's do it. I like it. You've been talking about measurement since, before anyone was talking about measurement. You've been doing a lot of technology before out-of-home really even started to embrace technology. Talk to me about how you measure out of home. Talk to me about the evolution from tracking eyeballs and being able to classify, you know, whether it was a male or female that saw a piece of advertising.

How did you start out measuring out of home and where is it? Yeah. So we did one of the very early campaigns. We did something for, um, with horizon media who have been great partners of us, and they always want to kind of think a little bit out of the box. Um, if you're, you're probably familiar with the technology.

Um, who was, uh, was a French company and they were just starting out as well and started reading about this, a facial recognition technology and how it can work. So we did a program with them in AMC networks, um, to promote a show called the Andromeda. I believe it or not. I remember. And again, it was a, you know, a vacant storefront with a vinyl, with a rear projection system that was playing the trailer for the show.

And we had a camera in there that was able to measure the people who would come by. How long they would stare, um, how many people walk by and we were able to get real measurements. And we actually took the, the, the, our clients behind the scenes in the storefront. So they could actually see the computer real time where people would come up and you'd see the boxes around their head and would say male, female, and guessing people, you know, and getting close to people's ages.

We thought that was really important then, and it's still very important now. And obviously technology has evolved, I think, um, you know, for us, you know, I, I don't think the at-home industry needs to overthink it too much. You know, we're always about, you know, constantly measuring and this and that. And I think we are doing that because there are so many different technologies out there to acquire measurements and data.

Um, and I think geo path is doing a really nice job of trying to really, uh, centralize. Us as an industry so that we can all speak the same language, because I think from, for way too long, um, you know, there's been way too many companies in our industry with their own data systems, their own data sets speaking their own languages.

And while it's great information, It doesn't transcend against all the other media, all the other, uh, media vendors in our business. And I think that what geo path has put together and some of the things you're doing, I sat on a webinar they had yesterday, uh, learning a little bit about how, um, they're gonna, they're introducing real-time metrics post COVID so that we can supply real data, which I think is really important.

And us all speaking that same language. We also believe some sort of mobile overlay is, is important as well. Um, you know, mostly every person now has some sort of smartphone. Um, and for us to really understand the way people are using our facilities or moving around and shopping, um, it not only supplies, great information for our clients.

But our realtor partners, which is something that we really focus on is how much value, right? Because for a company like us in pro media, you know, if we're, we're constantly competing at the highest levels with, you know, companies that are, you know, a hundred times bigger than we are. Um, and we constantly need to figure out different ways that we can provide value.

To those real estate partners, uh, so that we can, at the end of the day, um, embed ourselves in our business and create long lasting partnerships with great real estate companies. And we've been successful doing that. You know, folks like Brookfield and Jamestown and Madison international and those types of groups, right?

Cause it's, it's not like Facebook buy in Facebook, owns the newsfeed and they own their own inventory. You've got to manage. All sorts of different personalities and legal challenges and restrictions and different. I'm sure that the, the plethora of variables is, is significant to managing a portfolio of imminent.

No it is. I mean, currently we're managing, uh, over 400 screens across the country. Um, you know, everything from, uh, you know, transit centers to those urban venues that I spoke about to kind of one-offs and, uh, Every, you know, every landlord that we deal with has different goals and objectives. Right. And it's understanding what those are and then catering our services to meet those.

Um, and I think we've done a pretty good job doing that. Um, one of the things that we, um, started offering up as a service is, is literally helping them understand technology. We are technology agnostic, right? We're not sitting here recommending certain types of screens or certain vendors. What we really care about and what we preach to our partners is, you know, we sell, we sell a high end product, right.

You know, we deal with national brands, national clients. Um, I think we built up a pretty nice name of having good inventory and, and the stuff that you buy from pro media. Is going to look well and show well, we're in, I'm a big believer. Yes. Getting my guys perception is reality. And they've heard me say that probably a thousand times in the last 13 years.

And they're probably laughing now when they've see this, that I said that, but it's the truth. And it's something that we stick by, um, and being able to. Work with, um, these real estate partners who not only do they not have the time to really dive in and understand what's the best technology is that they just don't have the understanding.

And they're being inundated by every single different media vendor. So we come in and we provide a service where we go on. Um, do a place like a Chelsea market or Brookfield place, and we'll take all that heavy lifting off. Then, you know, our operations department, some pretty smart people who understand the right technology in the right places.

Uh, we'll handle all the networking or bringing the right partner to do that. And then we'll manage the entire, uh, digital platform for them on a daily basis. Everything from our content to their content, if a screen goes out, uh, servicing maintenance, all that sort of stuff. Um, and it's something that, uh, It's a service that they obviously enjoy.

Um, it provides us with an opportunity again, to embed them into their business and understand their goals and objectives better. Um, and then it also makes it helps us ensure that what we're delivering to our clients and our advertisers is always looks great, is working properly. Um, and if there are any issues were known, we know immediately, and we can report that back to the appropriate.

It's like farm to table for out of home. You're, you're, you're handling the ingredients from point of, uh, origination to, uh, to, to putting it on the, on the table for the, I might actually use that. So, uh, it it's yours. I got it. I love it. Part of the table at home. There it is moments happen. I love it. Sat for another show.

Make it a moment to talk to me, what's the tie into Pearl jam? Uh, I knew this question was going to come. It had to have to come. So listen to anyone who knows me, obviously I'm a big fan of the band. Um, I grew up as a kid in the nineties. I grew up in Northern New Jersey where they were pretty big here.

Um, the first CD I ever got in summer camp was the 10 CD and somebody gave it to me and I literally listened to it all through summer and I was just blown away. I've saw them live. Uh, and I just thought that they were the best live and I ever saw it and I've been following them ever since when I started the business, I literally submitted about 25 names for the company and two of them came back.

They were still available. One of them was my, uh, niece at a times. Middle name, Maya media. And the other one was Pearl media, obviously after Pearl jam, what we were doing at the time we were taking and we still do, and that whole business, we take distressed inventory. Sometimes we make it look great. And a Pearl comes from a distressed oyster rock in the bottom of the ocean.

And I just thought that the two synergies made a lot of sense. Um, and it's been Pearl media ever since I've been trying to figure out a way to start jam media. Um, but I don't know if that'll go over. So. And then the guy itself, then you by yourself immerse into the exactly. Um, but yeah, it's, if there's a concert pro playing in the Northeast is a good chance of near, so don't try to hit me up at the time.

No, I think that's pretty cool. I never quite got into pro jam, but I actually had them on, do you remember many disks? Do you remember many? Yeah, a neighbor of mine. He, he gave me a mini disc player and a mini disc of Pearl jam. But he never listened. I, I'm not claiming to be that it's the coolest thing or whatever.

It's probably pretty cheesy, but everyone has their thing. It's my thing. I'm a big music guy. I go to a lot of concerts. I've, you know, this time I've actually got reengaged with some, with my guitar again, over the last couple of weeks and, uh, been, been, been having a lot of fun with that. Good. Good. What else are you working on?

Any big projects that we should be keeping an eye out for? Yeah, we actually are in the, I mean, it's. We had a so much momentum going into this period. It's crazy. I mean, our pipeline of, of, of opportunity is, was the best it's been in several years. Um, you know, we have some really big projects that are happening, um, big, big projects, some of the big, biggest stuff that we've ever done that's, uh, scheduled to happen, um, that, uh, should now is probably going to launch in the middle of next year.

Still under some NDAs. So I can't say talk about it, but we're talking about, you know, thousands of square feet of led, uh, some in, in, uh, in a market near us, some of the market on the west coast, um, that we're really excited about. We have a great project in Nashville, which is a, which is a market that we've had our eye on for quite some time.

Speaking of music, if you're, if you ever go down to Nashville, I love Nashville. So Nashville, if you've ever been in Nashville, right on Broadway, um, right across from the Bridgestone arena, they built this another, a mixed use venue. Um, Uh, open-space venue. They're going to have the first large format, digital screens on Broadway, right?

In that corridor. It has that whole venues. It has a residential tower. It has a, an office tower. Um, it's going to have great retail music, food, um, and it's something that we're really excited about. It's, it's one of the fastest growing markets. Uh, what music and entertainment is to ho I mean, what, what, uh, movies and entertainment is the holiday.

That's what the music business has been for Nashville. Amazon just put one of their biggest distribution centers in the world down there. You have major tenants like Alliance Bernstein who can move their entire office down to, to Nashville. So, um, there's, there's a lot of cranes in the sky down there and, uh, we're, we're pretty excited.

It was supposed to open at the end of the summer, but because of the current market situation, it's now probably going to be a Q1. Of, uh, 2021, which aligns perfectly with the old AAA conference. So hopefully we'll get wild pretty heavily down there and be able to host some really neat events in that Plaza.

Um, you know, we've also, uh, you know, through this venue and transit stuff, we've been keeping our eye on some of these big transit RFPs that have been out there, uh, heavily involved in those, um, uh, hopefully we'll be. Get some news here in the next couple of weeks, we might be able to awarded some of these big contracts.

We feel good about it, but you never know. Um, and yeah, and, uh, we're trying to right the ship and understand. Where we, where we're going to be in, in the next couple of months. And listen, I think that there's going to it. It's going to be challenging for all of us. And we all need to understand that our landlords have been thankfully extremely understanding, um, because, and I think it has a lot to do with the relationships that we built over the years, the trustworthiness, um, and how we go about our business and that we're there for the long.

You know, we need a little help right now, and then we're going to get you back in the back end and we want to continue to build it and evolve. I mean, what I really love about out of home is. No, w we're not putting up we're from our business pro media doesn't really put up 14 by 48 roadside bulletins.

Right. The stuff that we do is custom and it's visionary or things that, you know, we think about. And we're like, Hey, this would be great if we did this, or we can put stuff here and do that. And then to see it actually happen and then see great brands like Netflix and apple, and those guys want to buy it and use it.

There's no gratifying feeling for us, especially as a mid-size player in this industry, to be able to work with some of these amazing clients on things that we thought of and that people want to spend money against. Um, we love building, we love being creative. We like to be a little bit different. We like to be near.

Um, and, uh, you know, I think if, uh, if you know our team and we've been all pretty much, the core team has been together for pretty much a decade now, uh, we like what we do, we're passionate about it. We have fun. Um, and, uh, you know, we enjoy it. Cool. I think all of those things are super important. Josh, where can people find you?

Where are you most active? What's the best way to learn more about you learn more about. Well, currently I've been sequestered to my home for the last eight weeks. So if you want to come knock on my door, I live in Northern New Jersey. Um, obviously you can come to our website and all of our social channels.

Um, you know, I will be the first to admit I'm not like the most active blogger and that sort of guy I've been trying to get a little bit more involved in that. But, uh, you know, um, I think all of our social channels, you go to our website, you can obviously, you know, I would hope that anyone thinks that they can reach out to me at any time on LinkedIn or some of these other channels and love having these conversations, uh, uh, whether it's with you or if it's with, uh, an AAE or other CEOs or presidents.

I, I do not believe in this whole, um, you know, step on one another to try to get a wind. Love to, I believe that all the boats rise tide in this industry and we should all be connected. Um, I have no problem speaking to my competitors or sitting down and brainstorming and talking about different things and we're going to compete on projects and we're going to win some and we're going to lose some and that's okay.

That's part of the business. Um, and I think it's more important how you lose than it is how you win, to be honest with you. Absolutely. I agree with that. And that's really what the shower's born out of is let's get more from. This is, this is for everybody's benefit. There's enough to go around. We're still shit.

I was watching some stuff getting ready here to talk to for probably seven years ago. And we're still talking about, we've got 7% of the market. There's there's enough money out there. You know, it's the most frustrating thing is I really felt like right before this, this industry was on the precipice to really dive in and grab some more of those budgets.

Like we were really doing a really great job from data and digital and tapping into the digital and TV money. And unfortunately, I think we took a couple steps back here. Just no fault to anybody. It's a fault of. Uh, the virus and, and, and the world that we live in. But I think if we keep at it, we keep pushing it.

I think that we can use this as a learning experience to get even better with our data. Um, I do believe that, you know, again, we're the only medium that can't be shut off, you know, the TV, the thousands of different options and people are pulling plugs. The online stuff is, is, uh, you know, while it's, it's, it's on an uptick right now because we were all online and at home, I still believe that those, those are extremely difficult to measure.

I don't know the law. I don't know if I ever, or the last time I ever clicked on an ad on, on, uh, on my computer. Um, never, never, I mean, think about it or on your cell phone, but, and then, you know, and then does it, does it not creep you out when I just went to home Depot to look at lounge chairs and then I go to ESPN and that lounge chairs sit on the right, but.

We're also getting smarter as an industry and we're going to start doing a lot of that stuff and understanding of a lot of people's behaviors. And we're excited about being part of that change. Um, but also being a part of what I could sit siddur is, you know, the survival mode that our industry is in right now, but we will come out of it.

We're going to be great. May 21st 21, uh, we'll be sitting in Midtown having this conversation and all the, all the signs around us will be lit up with great creative with great breads. Well, maybe we can live, stream it on some of those. Hey, maybe some of those will be ours, maybe so, maybe. So I think the enthusiasm has never been higher.

And speaking of the enthusiasm, if you want to get the official, I love out of home swag. It's O H swag.com. Uh, yes, I started, I started an e-commerce site to sponsor the show. It owning the ecosystem, I suppose if you will, but yeah, the enthusiasm's that high. So why not? You don't have to give me your address to speak in a swag.

And I, and I know I'm a bit biased, but I do believe that we have the best swag in the industry, the shirts, the softest shirts, sweatshirts, hats. You know, it's people love them. I mean, uh, it's uh, I'm going to send you a whole little care package just because I think that you're going to realize how great those things.

Well, I love good swag and I was gonna say the same to you after I shut off the record button, stick around while I get your address and get you out the first edition hat. That's cool. Well, if this has been helpful, you guys have enjoyed it. Please share it with somebody else who could benefit and as always, we'll see you guys next time.